1949 Fender Pro- $28500.00 on E-Bay

[Twangbanger]

there was a rant about the black tolex earlier above.

[garytelecastor]

Originally Posted by Guitarslinger1

Guess what I have for sale? For $3,000,000, I have Elvis' narrow panel Bandmaster that he's pictured with in the book 'The Soul of Tone'.

Elvis and some space aliens landed their ship in my backyard, and sold the amp to me for $50, then after a few beers they took off.

I have the receipt in Elvis' handwriting, and photos of me standing with Elvis, the space aliens, and the amp, in front of their ship.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the receipt or the photos...

I knew that Tommy Lee Jones was right in "Men in Black"!!!!!!!

[Boogie]

Originally Posted by 59TweedVibrolux

Ebay has changed the format of reporting Fake or Questionable listings.

You can now only enter the listing / Item Number, with no facility (as in the
past) to actually explain WHY you are reporting the item. In the past you
could actually type an explanation with the Item Number and send to them.
Now you must click on reason for reporting item, such as "Misleading
Description", Type in the Item Number, and send. If you try to type a reason
in the same box as the Item Number it won't permit you to send.

I reported (Item # ) to ebay, but could not explain why. They would have
simply read the description, asked the seller, looked at his feedback and
accepted his explanation. Because nothing has happened so far.

Follow this link:

http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...portItemMember

Under: "Reason for report", select "Fraudulent Listings", and under "Detailed Reason" select "You suspect that a listing is fraudulent; you didn't bid".

Click Continue.

Then in the next two boxes, you'll type the item number, 220251205437, and a detailed description up to 10,000 characters.

Maybe if enough folks do that, the listing will get pulled and someone won't get ripped off.

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by garytelecastor

I knew that Tommy Lee Jones was right in "Men in Black"!!!!!!!

Oh man, now I can't find the amp! But you guys gotta trust me. I have the amp and everything else, somewhere...honest!

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by Guitarslinger1

Guess what I have for sale? For $3,000,000, I have Elvis' narrow panel Bandmaster that he's pictured with in the book 'The Soul of Tone'.

Elvis and some space aliens landed their ship in my backyard, and sold the amp to me for $50, then after a few beers they took off.

I have the receipt in Elvis' handwriting, and photos of me standing with Elvis, the space aliens, and the amp, in front of their ship.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the receipt or the photos...

LOL Yeah and a friend of mine has Eric Claptons Strat, he has
signed it on the tip of the Headstock !!!

Thanks guys for the info and laughs !!! I emailed the seller again via ebay
and asked him without any concrete proof, how can he make these
statements about the historical importance of this amp ?? NO REPLY.

Guess he only wants to post the Good Comments about it.

I'm no expert but fair dinkum, if Leo Fender made a Cab that looked like
that, leaning more to Valco than Fender. I'm the Pope!!! Its a nice piece
of flame maple, but the construction technique is all wrong. And that use
of Tolex and two types of Phillips Head screws on the baffle ain't something
Leo would have done IMHO. His amps are timeless in design, look as good
today as back then. To me this looks like a Cabinet Maker has built it or
perhaps the owner was a Handy Man who knocked it up in his back shed ??

The lack of any Fender Markings, Logo, Tube Chart etc point to that. Leo
certainly didn't custom build amps like this for any of the High Profile
players of the day who used his gear. Why would he for Joe Public ??

Either way, without any form of proof positive, photo's, signed letter from
Leo, George Fullerton, or small plaque attached to the cab stating this,
its purely here say.

[Wally]

This is an interesting amp no matter what,imo. IF the cab is not a custom-built Fender, it was built sometime ago for this amp. The screw openings for the handle screws and those screws have been in that position long enough to gain the collection of dirt and such that only come with time.
I too had my questions about the chassis bolts....they have been 'disturbed' and don't look as fresh as the chassis, do they? The finish is super clean...I would have to see it in person to have a judgement on how old that is. Once again, the handle screws tell me that the finish is quite old, also. The chrome shows some very light pitting that again shows a bit more aging than does the cab.
I am at a disadvantage in that I have not had the luxury of studying any 'woody' cabs up close. I will admit that I have never seen that type of jointing on a Fender cab. Does anyone have a 'woody' of which they could show us some pics.
There is one thing in defense of the seller. He posts enough pictures with good clarity and good selection of points of interest so that if someone wants to question the amp, they have the footing on which to base questions, right? IF someone pays big bucks....and I don't think for a minute that it is selling for that $28,500 without intense scrutiny and that receipt....they have seen what they are buying. IF the lady comes up with the receipt and some pictures of that amp back in the day, then it will be established that this is a very special amp indeed. IF a receipt and/or pics don't materialize, it is a sharp player, imho.

[Boogie]

Wally, the guy shows clear pictures of what's offered in the listing, but he misrepresents the amp in his written description and doesn't answer any legit questions regarding its authenticity.

True, it's not an auction-style listing; it's a 'best offer' listing and $28.5k is his 'buy it now' price. In reality, the amp is worth less than a 1950 Pro because the cabinet, while it may be nice, is not original. This is a nice project amp for someone who wants to buy or build a repro TV-front cabinet for it, or someone who likes it and will play it like it is (I think it's as ugly as sin).

But he's hoping some poor sucker will believe that it's a real, custom made, one-off amp made by Leo and make a killing off of it.

His 97.8 feedback rating stinks for someone selling an item of this value (or anything over $10, IMO) and his "item as described" detailed seller rating is a poor 4.6/5. I'd avoid this guy like the plague.

[Wally]

I don't have a dog in this fight. As far as I can tell, none else here does either. Yes, we are entitled to our opinions. Frankly, nothing has been proven one way or another. I have my thoughts, doubts, questions; and if I were in the market, I wouldl have to be convinced of the accuracy of his claims if I were to consider putting big dollars into this.
AS far as Leo Fender et al doing odd things, it was not unknown. There is one unique 5F6A Bassman in existence which would blow our minds if we ever saw it on ebay or anywhere else in person. It is a bonafide head with 4X10" cabinet in tweed that was custom built for a customer. So, it is established that Fender would and did build to suit a customer on certain occassions. I have a BF Fender amp amp that would raise many questions in the marketplace....no stamped serial number, never a tube chart. All components match and the amp looks its age....45 years old. Where the stamped serial number should be in the chassis there is '000A' written in old-man pencil scrawl. IT is obviously an original Fender that doesn't fit into the general scheme of things. IT is a prototype, without a doubt in my mind. I also believe that Leo Fender himself scrawled the 'oooA'....the A looks ;too much like his L to be mistaken, imo. Could I convince everyone of that? Doubtful. Most true vintage amp freaks would understand when confronted with the obvious evidence, though. YEllow engineering marks for component placement on the fiberboard, carry-over tapped treble pots from the 6G_ amps, proper 'age' of wood/tolex/components, and the originality of the solder joints. So, strange things happen.
Fwiw, the seller of this amp has been in the vintage business for a long time. He has a business location in Hollywood. We would all like 100% satisfaction as a customer or a business. It is hard to do. I am not defending anyone or anything here. I am just making some observations. Just as the seller hasn't proven some claims to our satisfaction, neither has anyone shown convincing proof of anything except that the cabinet surely isn't a run-of-the-mill, recognized Fender cab. I do know that the seller has bought some pristine amps from me that would cause someone to question originality....if they didn't really know what they were looking at.
Until such proof of the amp's bonafides...one way or the other....it stands as I noted...a sharp looking amp with value in the market as a 'player's amp, imho.
Please, if someone has a 'woody', can we see some interior pictures of the cabinet? I would love to see those joints in a woody.

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by Wally

This is an interesting amp no matter what,imo. IF the cab is not a custom-built Fender, it was built sometime ago for this amp. The screw openings for the handle screws and those screws have been in that position long enough to gain the collection of dirt and such that only come with time.
I too had my questions about the chassis bolts....they have been 'disturbed' and don't look as fresh as the chassis, do they? The finish is super clean...I would have to see it in person to have a judgement on how old that is. Once again, the handle screws tell me that the finish is quite old, also. The chrome shows some very light pitting that again shows a bit more aging than does the cab.
I am at a disadvantage in that I have not had the luxury of studying any 'woody' cabs up close. I will admit that I have never seen that type of jointing on a Fender cab. Does anyone have a 'woody' of which they could show us some pics.
There is one thing in defense of the seller. He posts enough pictures with good clarity and good selection of points of interest so that if someone wants to question the amp, they have the footing on which to base questions, right? IF someone pays big bucks....and I don't think for a minute that it is selling for that $28,500 without intense scrutiny and that receipt....they have seen what they are buying. IF the lady comes up with the receipt and some pictures of that amp back in the day, then it will be established that this is a very special amp indeed. IF a receipt and/or pics don't materialize, it is a sharp player, imho.

Here are some Woodie photos. Note that the handle on the amp in question is the only thing that looks remotely related to the real Fender Woodies.









Now keep in mind, even if he produces a receipt from Fender, but all it says on it is something like: Pro Amp to Joe Smith, May 10, 1950 $200 That won't prove that the cab is original. The receipt would have to denote the custom cab.

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by Wally

There is one unique 5F6A Bassman in existence which would blow our minds if we ever saw it on ebay or anywhere else in person. It is a bonafide head with 4X10" cabinet in tweed that was custom built for a customer. So, it is established that Fender would and did build to suit a customer on certain occasions.

This is true, and it backs up our point. The 5F6A you speak of looks EXACTLY like a Fender 5F6A built as a separate head and cabinet. Everything about it looks like something Fender built, and everything about it looks period correct. Same with the other custom amps we have seen that Leo built for people.

The point is with the amp in question, is that the cabinet looks nothing like something that Leo would build. Further back in the thread, someone posted Gerald Weber's comments on it and on real Fender cabs in general and Woodie cabs.

For excellent info and photos on Fender amps, look for these books: 'Fender Amps - The First 50 Years' and 'The Soul of Tone'.

Someone on here should contact John Sprung. He owns Parts is Parts, co-wrote the book 'The First 50 Years', and is a Woodie connoisseur and Fender Amp expert.

http://www.guitar-parts.com/

[Flat357]

Originally Posted by Guitarslinger1

Guess what I have for sale? For $3,000,000, I have Elvis' narrow panel Bandmaster that he's pictured with in the book 'The Soul of Tone'.

Elvis and some space aliens landed their ship in my backyard, and sold the amp to me for $50, then after a few beers they took off.

I have the receipt in Elvis' handwriting, and photos of me standing with Elvis, the space aliens, and the amp, in front of their ship.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the receipt or the photos...

Don't forget my 50%

[Wally]

Gunslinger, thanks for the pics. I have seen plenty of the exterior of the cab.
I would like to see the interior...joints, etc....since it has been mentioned in this thread that the construction techniques are questionable. Actually, what has been said is that there is no way that this is a Fender-built amp.
It is obvious that the ebay amp is not built to woody specs. IT fits the PRo chassis, so it has to differ from the woody in that respect.
ONE poster mentioned that G. WEber claims that a true woodie is braced internally with metal L brackets. That seems strange to me...maybe stranger than the interior of this ebay amp. I would like to see that if that is the reality...metal brackets in a Fender cab...never seen it. I do see in gunslingers pics that the grille cloth is stapled...de rigeur for Fenders that I have seen. The ebay amp uses upholstery tacks. I thought that odd if the amp were built by Fender.
I also have not seen the type of joinery that is used in the ebay amp in an amp built by Fender. That is one reason why I would like to see the interior of a woody cab. Just tryin' to learn.....open mind and all. I have not had the pleasure of owning or even playing through a Woody. Has anyone in this thread owned one or inspected one closely.....again, pics? I gotta see those metal brackets. I would suspect metal brackets in a FEnder cab of 60 years age could be interpreted as aftermarket strenghthening of the joint. I could be wrong.
Sprung's book doesn't mention or show the joinery of the woody amps.
Again, I don't have a dog in this fight, and I am not convinced one way or the other nor am I taking a stance on the originality of this amp.
Whoever built the cab did a good job of adapting the 'woody' look to the newer chassis. I could see a player wanting a newer amp with the old look....but only way back in the day, right? AS I noted, that cab is not a new thing, imo. The handle screws and their recesses prove that to my eye. There was a pretty penny spent...or many personal man hours....to build this amp/cab. IT is a professional job done long ago. I wish that there were proof..receipt and/or pics....that this amp started out life in this cab just because I like rarities. AS it is, we may never know. WE can take a stance and say what we please, but there really isn't much that can be proven without that receipt/picture/provenance. The seller may be unable to substantiate his claims of originality and thereby uniqueness. We as observers are just as unable to testify that the amp is not a Fender-built amp as we see it today. We could testify as to the similarities and dissimilarities when compared to the regular production of the day and the prior production of the woody.....but when push comes to shove, it would be hard to testify that it is not what it is claimed, either. IT takes proof to KNOW for sure. Thinking is different.
One thing for sure, it is a "true dead ringer for something like you ain't never seen before!" (W.S. Walcott's Medicine Show by The Band)

[charlie chitlin]

FREE SHIPPING!!!
I'm gonna bid.
I'll go $600.
Cash on the barrelhead.
Yankee greenbacks.
Don't try to stop me.

[Boogie]

Originally Posted by Wally

We could testify as to the similarities and dissimilarities when compared to the regular production of the day and the prior production of the woody.....but when push comes to shove, it would be hard to testify that it is not what it is claimed, either. IT takes proof to KNOW for sure. Thinking is different.

I get your point, but until I SEE proof that the cabinet is original, I will REMAIN convinced that it's not. I KNOW that this is not going to happen.



Happy 4th!

[Wally]

Boogie, I'm not sure that it is not real...but I have serious doubts as to its originality. LOL

Charlie, the chassis and speaker are worth that. You are tring to steal that beautiful cabinet, aren't you? (;^)
I would think that the offers are a bit higher than that...even with all of the questions.

[beach bob]

Originally Posted by Wally

WE can take a stance and say what we please, but there really isn't much that can be proven without that receipt/picture/provenance. The seller may be unable to substantiate his claims of originality and thereby uniqueness. We as observers are just as unable to testify that the amp is not a Fender-built amp as we see it today. We could testify as to the similarities and dissimilarities when compared to the regular production of the day and the prior production of the woody.....but when push comes to shove, it would be hard to testify that it is not what it is claimed, either. IT takes proof to KNOW for sure.

Well, I come down on the side that, here we have a seller claiming something is a Fender 'missing link' ... if that is so, HE should produce the supporting evidence. Of course we can, as observers / potential bidders, opine as to the likelihood of what the seller claims, based on our knowledge. However, it is not up to us observers to offer proof of anything. It is up to the seller to provide the proof. Thus justifying a $25+k price tag. FWIW, he's already turned down four offers.

It seems you are giving the seller some benefit of the doubt, based on having done deals with him previously... I don't have a dog in the fight either, but I don't think that that sort of consideration would be in a potential purchasers best interest, considering the coin the seller is asking. Concrete evidence is indicated in this situation, not anecdotes about how gramma lost the receipt.

Interesting discussion... Happy Fourth.

[Wally]

Beach Bob, I don't have any incentive to be biased. They have bought from me and are particular about originality when it comes to buying. I would be just as picayune if I were buying from them as opposed to selling to them. That says nothing about this item on auction right now.
This seller sold a '64 Vibroverb back in February on ebay. I had my reservations about the claims of originality on that one, too. He had an amp built in the fall of '64 but the speaker dated NOv or Dec '63. I had at that time a dead mint April of '64 Vibroverb with a speaker that dated to the first two weeks of '64. IN that case as well, I could have my reservations but it would be very hard to prove that his speaker wasn't original.

[Big Lug]

Originally Posted by 59TweedVibrolux

... We are safe, at $28,500 who could / would pay that. But I'd hate to see some poor unsuspecting Doctor / Lawyer / Stock Broker get sucked in and lose that amount...

If I could think of a way for my ex's lawyer to become interested...

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Big Lug

If I could think of a way for my ex's lawyer to become interested...

The only way you could top that is if you worked a commission on the sale, right?

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by Wally

Beach Bob, I don't have any incentive to be biased.

It has nothing to do with being biased or picayune, nor is this a fight to have a dog in.

The seller is selling an amp for a large amount of money, that he is claiming is this outrageous one of a kind, among other claims, and the only evidence that the amp's cabinet is the original from Fender, is that the seller says so. That's it.

No actual proof is provided that the amp is 100% original from Fender, and NONE of the characteristics of the cabinet look to be made by Fender, save the "woodie" looking handle. These characteristics have been laid out previously in the thread.

Does anyone remember the auction about 2 years ago where there was a 56 or 57 Strat with a 57 Tremolux or Vibrolux amp? And the auction had dozens of wonderful photos and told of the woman buying them both new when she was a little girl, and she wanted to be a C&W star, but she lost interest and both the amp and guitar had been in a closet or something all these years? Anybody remember that one?

And after, and only after the winner of the auction paid for the items, did it come out that the Strat had been factory refinished at some point. I believe it was stamped REFIN, but curiously with all of the dozens of photos, many of the guitar taken apart, that REFIN stamp was never shown.

I would swear that this is the same seller of that auction. I have no proof, and do not remember who the seller was of it, but this Pro auction smacks of the same kind of BS, if not worse.

[Wally]

I might observe that the fellow who has this amp up for auction is more than likely not going to sell the amp. We all know why that is. He is trying to sell it for a large amount of money...or at least get some inexpensive worldwide advertising and hoping to land a big fish at soem lower but still large price. Also, please note that I made the observation that the auction contains plenty of photographs of points of interest and therefore contention. He is not hiding anything from inquiring minds. He is making claims based on what he says he has learned about the amp from the people from whom he purchased it. HE admits that he cannot substantiate those claims.
IF anyone pays anything for this amp, one can be assured of this. They have had the opportunity to view the amp in photographic detail. They have been presented with the fact that this cabinet is definitely not a regular production Fender cabinet. They should be aware that the claims that the cab was custom built at Fender cannot be substantiated at this time. In other words, the buyer has been privy to revelations about the amp and should be aware. Caveat emptor.
You have to give the 'seller' that much....he has not hidden anything...even the fact that he cannot back up the claim of the amp being a custom-built Fender.
As far as the vague memory of what may or may not have happened on ebay some years ago, I leave that for you to ponder.
I suppose that I am in the position of feeling the way I do about this issue is that I have been subjected to the 'scrutiny' of someone regarding an amp that I showed...not for sale, just show....to the Forum here. His words... "'Doesn't this look too clean to be real?"...stung a bit. A couple of forum members noted that I am a forthright upstanding type of guy and that helped. It also helped to the knowing eye that everything about the amp was correct...and virginally clean. Way Rare.
I try to be as neutral as possible about these things. When indisputable proof that something is not just irregular but not authentic is presented, then I will accept it. Until then, the thing in question is just an oddity....and defintitly not worth ten times what it should be as a non-original until proof of rarity and originality is given. Also, until proof of fraud is established, I am not in the habit of claiming such has occurred.
IN closing, in reference to this amp on ebay I quote....."THAT’S ABOUT THE MOST BOGUS THING I HAVE EVER SEEN. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW." Unnamed source...
IN other words, there is every reason to think that the amp is a fake, but it is hard to KNOW that.

[Boogie]

Originally Posted by Wally

I might observe that the fellow who has this amp up for auction is more than likely not going to sell the amp.

So far he has declined five offers and counter-offered one.

[Neer]

I put a call in to a friend who was a Fender sales rep from the 50s on through Music Man, and there aren't many more knowledgeable than he, so I'll await his opinion and post it here.

[Boogie]

Q: I just wanted to add my two cents... I had an opportunity to buy this from the original owner, but backed out due to poor timing only... :( This amp is as original as it's gonna get... i've owned more than a few hundred amps, and i know some folks are looking at this complete oddity of an amp and just not believing... BUT, this amp is like finding a living friggin dinosaur... it aint gonna happen again anytime soon.... FENDER... GET THIS IN YOUR MUSEUM! later, Mike Jul-03-08

A: Thanks, we examined this amp from top to bottom, we spoke to and purchased from the original owners, they are looking for the original receipt, it's obvious when you're in the same room with the owners and have the opportunity to do the forensics that the amp was indeed made by Fender, this is truly a one of a kind rare and beautiful original piece, it is the most important find in the vintage amp community and will be for many many years to come, thanks, VG Hollywood

[ibobunot]

Originally Posted by Wally

IN other words, there is every reason to think that the amp is a fake, but it is hard to KNOW that.

..

[Boogie]

..

[Neer]

OK, here's the offiicial response from my friend and long-time associate of Leo Fender:

Mike...this guy has to be kidding..Ouch don't touch it..its a bummer and never saw anything like this in my life..the heck with him he's Bananas..


'Nuff said for me!

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by Flat357

Don't forget my 50%

;-)

[beach bob]

Originally Posted by Wally

I might observe that the fellow who has this amp up for auction is more than likely not going to sell the amp.

That doesn't exactly excuse him for putting up what is (IMO) a bogus eBay listing.

Originally Posted by Wally

... or at least get some inexpensive worldwide advertising and hoping to land a big fish at some lower but still large price.

Hm, yes. He might 'settle' for a third or less of his BIN; say $8k. And go crying straight to the bank ... having ripped off someone for $6k over what the thing is worth.

Originally Posted by Wally

He is not hiding anything from inquiring minds.

Erm, to use your terminology, you cannot KNOW this. Note Guitarslinger1's story about the REFIN stamp on the '57 strat... Sure there's lots of pics, but you cannot say for sure that everything has been revealed.

Originally Posted by Wally

He is making claims based on what he says he has learned about the amp from the people from whom he purchased it. HE admits that he cannot substantiate those claims.

Um, not the way I see it. In the Q&A section, He states that he cannot guarantee that she will find the receipt. Not the same thing. In several other places in the listing, he guarantees it to be 100% original.

Originally Posted by Wally

They should be aware that the claims that the cab was custom built at Fender cannot be substantiated at this time. <edit> he has not hidden anything...even the fact that he cannot back up the claim of the amp being a custom-built Fender.

He revealed that he doesn't have the sales receipt only after being questioned about it in the Q&A's. What does '100% original' mean to you?? Also, he curiously does NOT answer a query about the tube chart. And, at least a couple specific queries submitted by TDPRIers have not shown up in his auction, or [obviously] have been answered. Finally, he calls it a Woody about nine different places in the listing ... OK I'll give the guy a pass on using that word in the listing title, as there is a wood finish cabinet. But, again, the Q&A area is where he admits this is NOT a woody. This does not meet my standard of 'not hiding anything'.

Originally Posted by Wally

When indisputable proof that something is not just irregular but not authentic is presented, then I will accept it. Until then, the thing in question is just an oddity....and definitely not worth ten times what it should be as a non-original until proof of rarity and originality is given. Also, until proof of fraud is established, I am not in the habit of claiming such has occurred.

Again, this is backwards thinking... As a potential buyer [& I'm not], I am not obligated to show proof it is not legit. I can use my knowledge, and observation of other factors, and draw a conclusion, i.e., an opinion, of my own. Then, I can bid, or not. The seller must substantiate his claim of authenticity.

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by beach bob

That doesn't exactly excuse him for putting up what is (IMO) a bogus eBay listing.



Hm, yes. He might 'settle' for a third or less of his BIN; say $8k. And go crying straight to the bank ... having ripped off someone for $6k over what the thing is worth.



Erm, to use your terminology, you cannot KNOW this. Note Guitarslinger1's story about the REFIN stamp on the '57 strat... Sure there's lots of pics, but you cannot say for sure that everything has been revealed.



Um, not the way I see it. In the Q&A section, He states that he cannot guarantee that she will find the receipt. Not the same thing. In several other places in the listing, he guarantees it to be 100% original.



He revealed that he doesn't have the sales receipt only after being questioned about it in the Q&A's. What does '100% original' mean to you?? Also, he curiously does NOT answer a query about the tube chart. And, at least a couple specific queries submitted by TDPRIers have not shown up in his auction, or [obviously] have been answered. Finally, he calls it a Woody about nine different places in the listing ... OK I'll give the guy a pass on using that word in the listing title, as there is a wood finish cabinet. But, again, the Q&A area is where he admits this is NOT a woody. This does not meet my standard of 'not hiding anything'.



Again, this is backwards thinking... As a potential buyer [& I'm not], I am not obligated to show proof it is not legit. I can use my knowledge, and observation of other factors, and draw a conclusion, i.e., an opinion, of my own. Then, I can bid, or not. The seller must substantiate his claim of authenticity.

100% Correct on all points Beach Bob

[59TweedVibrolux]

Posting Full Disclosure photos is great, I applaud the seller for this. But I have
seen listings from this seller in the past that were also dodgy with regard to
exact description of the item. One case was a '64 Deluxe Reverb. Described
as Original......he used the word Original about 6 tomes in the first dozen
lines of the description. A question was asked about the dubious Dates of
the Transformers and a Spliced Mains Transformer Wire. He answered back
very sarcastically making almost a joke of it. Calling it " Electronic Diversity"
"what makes life so interesting" ????? Say what !!! Very flippant from a
seller asking you to trust him and his description. Excuse me but that
" Electronic Diversity" has a BIG impact on the Value of the amp and also on
the Originality of the amp. Not to mentioned selling someone a Lemon

Please feel free to view. www.ebay.com Item # 220219608494

Click on View all 16 Questions.

This seller seems to make Bold Statements about all his items. Unfortunately
he is the only one laughing (to the bank) .

Its great to have found this Forum, to be able to post concerns / questions
and get opinions and feedback. My main point was to highlight the fact that
today with the ever increasing prices of Vintage Gear, Faking and the
Misrepresentation of items is happening more an more. Most people would
love to own a Vintage Guitar / Amp, a piece of history so to speak. They
don't however always have a depth of knowledge to pick whats Real from
Whats Not. They rely on study, friends, associates, and trust of sellers
and musical retailers to " do " the right thing. We are talking about a lot
of money. Last thing you want is to be stuck with a Lemon.

Vintage Gear Hollywood can make all the claims they want, thats not the
problem. But if you make such Bold and Positive claims about an instrument,
comments that DO give the impression to the buying public that you know
what you are saying to be true. Then the very least you MUST DO is
provide irrefutable Proof to the potential buyers to back up your
claims.

This has not been done. I have asked 3 Times, questions about what we
have raised on the Forum. He answered me the first time, not posting my
question on the listing. His reply was simply...." yes, beautiful isn't it"
The follow up questions from me, again weren't posted on the listing, his
reply to those ??........ No Reply

[59TweedVibrolux]

I emailed John Sprung with the listing # asking if he could have a look and
let me know his opinion. Just got his reply...........

Reply from John Sprung 7 / 4 / 2008.... " Looks Completely Bogus To Me "

[beach bob]

59Tweed, verrrry interesting, that guy's auction w/ the " '64" Deluxe... at least he answered some challenging questions in that one & very poorly, too

And the guy claims he's in the PR biz? Yah, I know a guy in the PR biz too; his face is in his full sized used car ad every Saturday in the classified section of the paper ... there is a difference between PR, and 'hype'.

I admit I haven't watched 100's of vintage amp Ebay auctions ... does hype beget hype? This seller seems to attract a heck of a lot of people blowing smoke up his nether regions in the Q&A area ...

Anyways, 59, thanks for the affirmation. Beer's on me today, I'm firing up the grill and making ribs. Keep the little ones away from the boom booms, eh?

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by beach bob

59Tweed, verrrry interesting, that guy's auction w/ the " '64" Deluxe... at least he answered some challenging questions in that one & very poorly, too

And the guy claims he's in the PR biz? Yah, I know a guy in the PR biz too; his face is in his full sized used car ad every Saturday in the classified section of the paper ... there is a difference between PR, and 'hype'.

I admit I haven't watched 100's of vintage amp Ebay auctions ... does hype beget hype? This seller seems to attract a heck of a lot of people blowing smoke up his nether regions in the Q&A area ...

Anyways, 59, thanks for the affirmation. Beer's on me today, I'm firing up the grill and making ribs. Keep the little ones away from the boom booms, eh?

Cheers Beach Bob. Have a great 4th of July.

He definitely gets off on all those people (as we say) licking his nether
region. Seems to like that Self Promotion. When you have a number of REAL
Authorities such as John Sprung, Gerald Weber coming out with the identical
responses....Bogus then you have to really doubt it.

Obviously the name of the game is........Have a Ridiculous BUY NOW price.
Hoping someone will offer $15,000 (say) , he makes a killing, they think they
scored a real deal......in other words Fishing. Definitely Used Car
tactics. A reputable Vintage Dealer would never make those claims without
hard evidence. I liked that comment.......Electronic Diversity......to describe
a Vintage Amp that has a lot of issues with possible replaced key parts.
That shows the contempt he has for people he sells to. I think he has a case
of..... Integrity Diversity. Have a Bonza Barbie, chuck on a few snags
and steaks for us, crack open and sink a few Tinnies !!! (Beers)

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by 59TweedVibrolux

Posting Full Disclosure photos is great, I applaud the seller for this. But I have
seen listings from this seller in the past that were also dodgy with regard to
exact description of the item. One case was a '64 Deluxe Reverb. Described
as Original......he used the word Original about 6 tomes in the first dozen
lines of the description. A question was asked about the dubious Dates of
the Transformers and a Spliced Mains Transformer Wire. He answered back
very sarcastically making almost a joke of it. Calling it " Electronic Diversity"
"what makes life so interesting" ????? Say what !!! Very flippant from a
seller asking you to trust him and his description. Excuse me but that
" Electronic Diversity" has a BIG impact on the Value of the amp and also on
the Originality of the amp. Not to mentioned selling someone a Lemon

Please feel free to view. www.ebay.com Item # 220219608494

Click on View all 16 Questions.

This seller seems to make Bold Statements about all his items. Unfortunately
he is the only one laughing (to the bank) .

Its great to have found this Forum, to be able to post concerns / questions
and get opinions and feedback. My main point was to highlight the fact that
today with the ever increasing prices of Vintage Gear, Faking and the
Misrepresentation of items is happening more an more. Most people would
love to own a Vintage Guitar / Amp, a piece of history so to speak. They
don't however always have a depth of knowledge to pick whats Real from
Whats Not. They rely on study, friends, associates, and trust of sellers
and musical retailers to " do " the right thing. We are talking about a lot
of money. Last thing you want is to be stuck with a Lemon.

Vintage Gear Hollywood can make all the claims they want, thats not the
problem. But if you make such Bold and Positive claims about an instrument,
comments that DO give the impression to the buying public that you know
what you are saying to be true. Then the very least you MUST DO is
provide irrefutable Proof to the potential buyers to back up your
claims.

This has not been done. I have asked 3 Times, questions about what we
have raised on the Forum. He answered me the first time, not posting my
question on the listing. His reply was simply...." yes, beautiful isn't it"
The follow up questions from me, again weren't posted on the listing, his
reply to those ??........ No Reply

Wow, I read the Q&A on that auction. That seller is a genuine tool. Yeah I said it.

I can't believe that DR sold for so much with replacement transformers.

But I see what's happening. There's an old saying, that dates back to some people I won't mention, that goes something like "if a lie is repeated enough times, it becomes the truth". He states that it is "all original" over and over, yet the photos clearly show otherwise, then belittles and puts down anyone who points this out, and has all these bogus responses from friends or whoever heaping praise on him and his item for sale. It kind of reminds me of FOX News these days, to be honest. Similar tactics to "steer" the perception of reality.

[Neer]

This seller is true jerk--I remember I had an experience with him over a Standel cabinet that I won a few years ago. The shipping was exhorbitant and I asked him if there was anything we could do to lower it. His response was: "You know what, let's just cancel the whole deal". Which is what happened. I was extremely pissed. Yes, he is a tool, but now I know he's more than that.

[Guitarslinger1]

And now we have the opinion of a supposed expert. This is all just more smoke...

Q: I just wanted to add my two cents... I had an opportunity to buy this from the original owner, but backed out due to poor timing only... :( This amp is as original as it's gonna get... i've owned more than a few hundred amps, and i know some folks are looking at this complete oddity of an amp and just not believing... BUT, this amp is like finding a living friggin dinosaur... it aint gonna happen again anytime soon.... FENDER... GET THIS IN YOUR MUSEUM! later, Mike Jul-03-08
A: Thanks, we examined this amp from top to bottom, we spoke to and purchased from the original owners, they are looking for the original receipt, it's obvious when you're in the same room with the owners and have the opportunity to do the forensics that the amp was indeed made by Fender, this is truly a one of a kind rare and beautiful original piece, it is the most important find in the vintage amp community and will be for many many years to come, thanks, VG Hollywood

and LOL @ his "forensics"!

[Big Mike Simpson]

This looks to me like someone made a fancy wood cabinet for a Pro. To me this does not look like a factory custom. One of the things that just looks wrong is all the speaker screws and baffle screws screwed in from the front. That looks like something a woodworker hobbyist might do. On a Pro or a Woodie the speaker screws are not shown on the front. If Fender had built this they would have put in speaker studs in the baffle board and covered the heads with tolex as well as the corner screws would have come from the back so none of the screw heads would show on the front. I doubt that Fender would have used tolex as well... why build a cabinet like that out of birdseye / quilted maple and not make the front of the baffle board the same wood or cover it with cloth. Also interesting is the use of plain clear maple for the bottom of the cabinet.

I have a 49 TV front Pro and a 52 Wide panel Pro... I am just some maple and tolex away from $28k...

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by Big Mike Simpson

This looks to me like someone made a fancy wood cabinet for a Pro. To me this does not look like a factory custom. One of the things that just looks wrong is all the speaker screws and baffle screws screwed in from the front. That looks like something a woodworker hobbyist might do. On a Pro or a Woodie the speaker screws are not shown on the front. If Fender had built this they would have put in speaker studs in the baffle board and covered the heads with tolex as well as the corner screws would have come from the back so none of the screw heads would show on the front. I doubt that Fender would have used tolex as well... why build a cabinet like that out of birdseye / quilted maple and not make the front of the baffle board the same wood or cover it with cloth. Also interesting is the use of plain clear maple for the bottom of the cabinet.

I have a 49 TV front Pro and a 52 Wide panel Pro... I am just some maple and tolex away from $28k...

LOL Also I never knew Fender
used ..... Pinking Shears ? to cut its Tolex.

[Big Mike Simpson]

Ya... wouldn't want that tolex to unravel... and while they were at it they used tacks to attach the grill cloth and tolex... not staples or glue...