Orange, Marshall, Dr Z, Fender review - kinda-sorta

[reverbbb]

Well for the past 6 years, I have been absolutely obsessed with guitars and amps. My guitar collection is fairly solid with guitars that I have been wanting. Same thing with amps. There are those who are trying to stay with a minimum configuration of amps/guitars, others that are down sizing while even other folks just keep growing their collection. I tend to fall in the third category. However, I hit critical mass about a year ago. I have no room or funds to keep buying more gear. So, now that I have just about everything that I ever wanted, what next? Logic tells me to down size. But I hate to get rid of the great stuff that I have accumulated. Hence, I am now on a tone-quest within my own collection.

Here is what I have:

Marshall - 2204, 50W Master Volume Head (circa 1979)
Marshall - 2061X, 20W Hand Wired Head (circa 2006)
Marshall - 1974X, 18W Hand Wired Combo (circa 2005)
Orange - Rocker 30, 30W Combo (circa 2004)
Dr. Z - Maz 18 Jr., 18W Reverb Combo (circa 2001)
Fender - Blues Deluxe, 40W Combo (circa 1993)
Crate - CPB150 PowerBlock, 150W Solid State Head (circa 2006)

In addition to these amps I have several speaker cabinets:

Marshall - 1960AC, 4x12, G12M-25
Marshall - 1922, 2x12 - one G12M-25, one G12H-30
Marshall - 1912, 1x12, G12H-30
Crate - GT112SL, 1x12, Celestion 100W

I will not go into a long detailed explanation of each amp. But instead, just bullet list the benefits:

Marshall - 2204, 50W Master Volume Head (circa 1979)
Tonal Qualities
* 6550 (converted over to EL34)
* Stellar sound
* Smooth as silk or edgy as thorns
* Defacto definition of 70s rock music for Marshall tone
* Big fat clean tones available
Pros
* Master Volume a huge benefit
* Moderately simple controls
* Lots of positive comments about the recorded tone
* Low circuit noise with single coil pickups
* My favorite amp I own
* Increasing in value
Cons
* Heavy when combined with the defacto 4x12 cabinet
* Looks odd bringing a Marshall rig (1/2 stack) to a jam or blues session
* No channel switching
* No effects loop

Marshall - 2061X, 20W Hand Wired Head (circa 2006)
Tonal Qualities
* EL84
* Great sound
* Nice feedback
* Plenty loud
Pros
* Simple controls
* More portable (when combined with a desirable 2x12 cabinet)
* Hand wired for easier repairs
Cons
* Depreciating in value
* Takes some effort to find a clean input/adjustment setting
* A smaller sound than a 50W or 100W Marshall
* No channel switching
* Slight circuit noise with single coil pickups
* No effects loop

Marshall - 1974X, 18W Hand Wired Combo (circa 2005)
Tonal Qualities
* EL84
* Excellent sound
* Nice feedback
* Moderately loud
Pros
* Simple controls
* Extremely portable and light
* Hand wired for easier repairs
* Excellent sounding Tremolo (with footswitch)
Cons
* Depreciating in value
* Bad reputation for blowing transformers
* May be lost in the stage volume without mic'ing and monitor (large venues)
* No channel switching
* Slight circuit noise with single coil pickups
* No effects loop

Orange - Rocker 30, 30W Combo (circa 2004)
Tonal Qualities
* EL34
* Very Good sound
* OK feedback (when pushed hard)
* Moderately loud
Pros
* Very small footprint
* Simple controls
* Very edgy rock tone spectrum
* Channel switching (footswitch - Clean/Dirty)
Cons
* Depreciating value
* May be lost in the stage volume without mic'ing and monitor (large venues)
* Extremely heavy for such a small footprint (50lbs.)
* Moderate circuit noise with single coil pickups
* No effects loop

Dr. Z - Maz 18 Jr., 18W Reverb 2x10 Combo (circa 2001)
Tonal Qualities
* EL84
* Excellent sound
* "Zesty" with good guitar pick clarity
* Moderately loud
Pros
* Moderately simple controls
* Moderately portable
* Low circuit noise with single coil pickups
* Hand wired for easier repairs
* Holding value
Cons
* Reverb requires lots of Master Volume for full use
* Not big on clean tones
* Not a high gain amp
* Tends to get lost in the mix
* No effects loop

Fender - Blues Deluxe, 40W Combo (circa 1993)
Tonal Qualities
* 6L6
* Decent Fender tonal approach
Pros
* Increasing in value
* Excellent reverb
* Moderately portable
* Channel switching (with footswitch)
* Tweed is cool
* Very loud
* Fat Fender clean
* Effects loop
Cons
* I have always felt that Fender does not do gain as good as Marshall
* At times, can be too loud with no room for adjustment
* Mildly complex controls

Crate - CPB150 PowerBlock, 150W Solid State Head (circa 2006)
Tonal Qualities
* Solid State circuit
* Fat/boomy clean
* Conventional overdrive tones
* Harsh/edgy distortion
Pros
* Holding value
* Extremely portable
* Many I/O connection options, including XLR DI
* Surprisingly usable tonal qualities
* Moderately simple controls
* Very loud or very quiet
* Very affordable
* Effects loop
Cons
* No longer made
* Solid state circuits are difficult for find techs to repair
* Slightly less touch sensitive than tube amps, but fairly good.
* The open back GT112SL speaker does not sound as good as many other speaker choices

So, there you have it. With all this information at hand, I am still not sure which amps may have to be 'let go'. I would love to keep them all. But this many amps just does not seem practical.

[Southern ILL]

Wow....It must be the 10s'...."Not big on clean tones" & "Tends to get lost in the mix"....My 2x12 was just the opposite.Killer cleans and it really cut through the mix. With single coils it cool be very shrill at times.It love P-90s' and all tele tones....really a grerat amp. I could do everything but Thrash metal with mine.

Dr. Z - Maz 18 Jr., 18W Reverb 2x10 Combo (circa 2001)
Tonal Qualities
* EL84
* Excellent sound
* "Zesty" with good guitar pick clarity
* Moderately loud
Pros
* Moderately simple controls
* Moderately portable
* Low circuit noise with single coil pickups
* Hand wired for easier repairs
* Holding value
Cons
* Reverb requires lots of Master Volume for full use
* Not big on clean tones
* Not a high gain amp
* Tends to get lost in the mix
* No effects loop

[

[reverbbb]

The Maz 18 Jr. is an excellent sounding amp. It is very middle of the road between clean and gain. This is one of it's best features.

However, I have tried this amp with my R&B band. It does not clean up as much as my 1974X amp does. The Masrhall provides a bit more spank for that funk sound.

I have brought the Maz 18 Jr. to several jams. When there are other guitarists playing, the Maz tends to sonically hide behind the other amps in the room. But fortunately, when the band is more focused and controlled in volume, then this amp shines. But it does not like to share the stage with louder amps.

[romo]

Originally Posted by reverbbb

The Maz 18 Jr. is an excellent sounding amp. It is very middle of the road between clean and gain. This is one of it's best features.

However, I have tried this amp with my R&B band. It does not clean up as much as my 1974X amp does. The Masrhall provides a bit more spank for that funk sound.

I had the exact opposite with the 1974x. Mine had basically zero usable clean tone. I don't have a Maz18 but I did have a Maz38 for a while and I now have a Carmen Ghia. Even the CG has much more usable cleans than the 1974x did. I thought the Marshall was great for a Bluesbreaker kind of tone but not much else, hence the reason I got rid of it quite some time ago.

[reverbbb]

I agree that a 1974X is not a 'clean' amp, thought I certainly implied such. But the sound is better for the R&B mix. It is odd. I have used both amps at rehearsal. The Maz 18 Jr. was good, but it left me desiring more. So the next rehearsal I brought the 1974X again. Bingo, that amp fit better for those songs.

Is it because the 1974X is cleaner? Probably not the correct description. But it just seemed to fit better. I call it a funk factor. It may be as simple as turning the reverb off of the Maz to make it pull forward better. But if I am going to forego the reverb, then I prefer the 1974X.

[IronJoe]

One of the local shops, Fat Sound, sells a non-reverb version of the Maz 18. They say it compresses less than the reverb version. If true, that might be why it was lost in the mix.

[reverbbb]

Good point. Definately worthy of considering.

[IronJoe]

Impressive list, by the way. I'd have a hard time down-sizing any of those amps. Do you find that the Orange covers much territory that the Marshall's don't do?

With a handle like Reverbbb, I assumed you were into Fender reverb amps.

[reverbbb]

I have only had the Orange for a few days. As with any amp manufacturer, there are several models to choose from that do different things. But generally, you can rely on the name to approach a certain performance tone. Generically, the sought after Marshall tone is the benchmark that we often think of. I would say the 2204 is in the square center of that benchmark.

Frankly, the 1x12 Rocker 30 Combo cannot hold a candle to the benchmark of a 4x12 plus Marshall head. But the Rocker 30 does emulate the Marshall genre good enough to use on stage for that purpose. But when compared side by side, there is very little to rave about with the Orange. The Marshall IS THE amp of choice.

Yet, as explained above, the Marshall looks just plain silly toting around to most of the venues that I play. Even though the Marshall rig can play the blues factor better than my Fenders that I have owned, it still is not widely accepted as the bring-along-blues-amp for jams. Therefore, the area best covered by the Orange is not the tone, but the portability. The Orange can probably do a bit more gain than the Marshall. But I have a hard time controlling the noise artifacts from my strings when there is too much gain.

Does that answer your question?

Ironically, I have not been a big Fender amp player. I was financially chained to a Bassman 10 when I was a kid. Then I finally could afford a real 100W Marshall (1970 Vintage). My friends all played Fenders. But I was not into 'that' sound. But I certainly love to hear good players paint their tapestry through a nice Fender/Accutronic reverb tank.

My handle of reverb was just a fancy moment when one day I realized that my real name was permanently spread all over the newsgroups. So, I adopted "reverb" on the fly. When I came to TDPRI, "reverb" was already taken. I tried to register "reverbb", but my SPAM filters blocked the registration authorization. So finally, I was able to fix the SPAM blocker and got "reverbbb" registered. It is the name that I now use on all forums. A TDPRI member made the logo for me. I proudly use it every chance that I can. The logo really reflects (pun intended) the affect of the repeated sound. It all came about by happen-stance. But the parts all add up to art.

[weiner71]

That looks like a great list of amps to me.

I love the sound of those 20 watt marshalls. I have been thinking of getting one (I don't have the budget for a real one so I was thinking of getting the ceriatone lead and bass head)

I've seen people use it for slide to get a Duane Allman type sound out of the bass side.

[reverbbb]

Originally Posted by weiner71

I've seen people use it for slide to get a Duane Allman type sound out of the bass side.

Now there's an idea that I have not explored. That bass side is very useful sometimes.

[detuned]

Wow - that's odd. Guess that shows its' definitely all (or mostly) in the hands.

I've never had a hard time either dialing spectacular clean tones cutting through the mix with my Maz - & it's the same flavor as yours.
There are so many variables, tube types, age of tubes, guitars, pups, the player, that make it hard to figure out why you aren't getting that out of yours...

To each his own! :-)

Never thought of a Marshall as a particularly funky or spanky amp either, & I've owned a few. Very enlightening - thanks!

[jumpnblues]

I used to own a Dr.Z MAZ 18 Jr. reverb model 2x10" combo and I never once got lost in the mix...even when miced for outdoor gigs. Always cut through very nicely. Can't speak for the NR model though.


Tom

[e-merlin]

Are you wanting to downsize because of need or because of guilt? Honest question to ask, not trying to pick a fight.

I would have a hard time getting rid of any of my amps, even if space were at a premium. Forget that I have three of the same amp and two similar amps, with another on the way, as well as another project coming and a few other things in the works. Almost all are Peavey, and I just can't get enough Peavey amps.

If space is a problem, maybe you could leave a couple at the rehearsal space or at a friend's house.

As to what has become the focus of this thread, the Maz 18 Jr., have you tried it in tandem with, say, the 18 Watt Marshall? Bet that would be an awesome combination! Bet THAT wouldn't get lost in the mix...

I just hate it when someone feels that they HAVE to get rid of something for reasons other than financial. I have never regretted selling something because my family needed the money. I have always regretted a decision to sell something because it seemed the thing to do at the time.

[reverbbb]

There is a level of guilt at play here. However, the wife is once again unemployed (third time in three months). The looming aspect of fund shortage is causing me some worry. I bought the Orange just a few days ago. It is an amp I want for about two~three years. The deal I was getting on the amp made me justify spending the money. But in the back of my mind, I felt that I needed to use old money for this amp, hence the consideration to sell something.

This week end, I am going to try and find some time to REALLY study the comparisons. I must insist that the Maz 18 Jr. is an outstanding amp. But I am frequently disappointed when that amp gets back-staged by other guitar amps. Not completely, but just enough that clarity is lost.

Like I said, I am going to spend more time with all my amps this week end and come to some better conclusions. Perhaps I will establish some recordings. This should help me study the tones more in depth.

I also suspect that there is a preference factor at play. A preference of how "I" want to sound. Though I cannot pin-point what "my" sound is, I can often detect when I am not sounding the way I want to sound. That does not mean that the amp is simply bad.

[e-merlin]

Originally Posted by reverbbb

I also suspect that there is a preference factor at play. A preference of how "I" want to sound. Though I cannot pin-point what "my" sound is, I can often detect when I am not sounding the way I want to sound. That does not mean that the amp is simply bad.

Those are words to live by. The brutal truth is that no matter how expensive an amp is, or how hyped it is, or what hot superstar plays it, it may just not be your tone. If you can't get your tone out of something, no matter how bad you want to make it work, is it worth keeping?

Sorry to hear about your wife's job. Hope she finds something before you really need to start liquidating.

[Wardpike]

Originally Posted by IronJoe

One of the local shops, Fat Sound, sells a non-reverb version of the Maz 18. They say it compresses less than the reverb version. If true, that might be why it was lost in the mix.

You can vary the sound and compression of a Maz18JR just by changing the rectifier tube. It comes with a 5AR4 which is medium in the "sag" department. My tech popped a 5Y3 in there and it gave the amp more compression. He told me that you can get rectifier tubes that contribute less or more compression and since they're only $9 each, just buy a few and experiment. Any decent rectifier tube should last the lifetime of the amplifier... or 99 years, whichever comes first.

Just food for thought!

[reverbbb]

I have started a new thread that allows you to hear the recorded amps. Go visit that thread and rate them as you hear them:

"Rate these Amps"