Tweed Amps - Asbestos on Backpanel

[59TweedVibrolux]

Thanks Jim ( Silverface ) Very much appreciated for all here on the forum.
Thats clearly given some great information and advice.

You are right in saying every day living exposes us to a multitude of fumes,
particles, etc . The pollutants in the air everyday that we breath. !!!

The clear urethane is a great suggestion. Thanks. These panels have stood
up to 50 yrs in the back of these amps with no deterioration. But is worth
encapsulating as a safe guard.

B.F. / Brown Face and S.F. never had the panel of asbestos owing to the
change in design from the exposed chassis of a Tweed to the Slide Out
design of those later amps. Leo fitted the wire mesh under the top of the
cab in those to cut RF waves. I will post a pic of the Rear Panels of a B.F.
Princeton Rev as example showing no Asbestos Lining. Top is the Top Panel
Bottom is the Bottom Panel in the photo. These were just straight
wood with tolex covering. Only the Tweed Era 1950 - 1961 had it.

[Schwalbe]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

He's in Aussie, so laws may be different there.

I'd call somebody who deals with Asbestos and talk to them. I wouldn't leave it there as it can be very terrible for your lungs.

Ask a pro, get rid of it - do NOT cover it over or ignore it.

A room fan at a gig = poof, an unwitting repairman = poof, a bumpy ride in the trunk = poof. Get it taken care of by a pro.

+++ a billion
Bring it to a pro. What ever it costs it's cheaper than contracting Mesothelioma.
If only you could ask Warren Zevon or Steve McQueen.

[GUITARmole]

So am I the only one that after reading up on asbestos hazards thinks that the backpanel on a Tweed Fender amp is pretty harmless?

From what I've read the big risks are from repeated exposure in the workplace or industry; in other words taking the back panel off your amp twice every 20 years probably isn't going to kill you.

I mean for crap's-sake...how often do you take off the backpanel and huff it?

Also, after reading the ridiculous amount of regulations and paperwork you have to go through to dispose of it properly it seems you're better off doing nothing...or putting your backpanel in a sealed bag and replacing it with a repro as already suggested.

...now to move on to the next topic...lead solder that's non-ROHS compliant.

Originally Posted by Schwalbe

+++ a billion
Bring it to a pro. What ever it costs it's cheaper than contracting Mesothelioma.
If only you could ask Warren Zevon or Steve McQueen.

FWIW:
"McQueen had been surrounded by asbestos all of his life. As a young adult, McQueen was employed in the construction industry, where asbestos was often present at job sites. While serving as a Marine, McQueen worked at shipyards where he was responsible for stripping asbestos off the pipes used in naval ships (asbestos was used in the insulation of modern ships built before 1976). It has also been suggested that McQueen, an avid car racer, may have been exposed to asbestos when repairing the brake linings of race cars and/or wearing the protective helmets and driving suits associated with the sport."

"No one is entirely sure how Warren developed mesothelioma. While Warren had been smoking for almost thirty years before quitting in 1996, the cause of mesothelioma is exposure to asbestos. After Warren died, his son Jordan discussed his theory as to how Warren contracted it. Warren’s father owned a carpet store in Arizona, and when Warren was quite young, he used to play in the attic, which was loaded with asbestos. It is unclear whether or not his apartment building contained asbestos"

In other words both had repeated exposure to airborne asbestos particles.

[Schwalbe]

If you and you alone are willing to take the risk and can be absolutely sure you are not exposing anyone else then fine, have at it. If you play these amps at public performances then you might as well fire up a pack of butts while you're at it. If you play these amps in your house, where you children live, well...think about it.

http://www.mesotheliomaweb.org/mesot...test&scacct=26

http://www.mesotheliomaweb.org/mesot...test&scacct=26

http://www.mesotheliomaweb.org/cause.htm

A quote from the Mesothelioma Resource Center:http://www.mesorc.com/information/as...s-exposure.php
People who work with asbestos containing materials on a regular basis account for the highest levels of asbestos exposure. Certain jobs and work environments, like mining, factory work, ship building, and construction work, are more likely to result in asbestos exposure than others. Studies have even shown that even the family members of asbestos workers have suffered asbestos exposure from fibers brought home on the workers' clothing.

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by GUITARmole

So am I the only one that after reading up on asbestos hazards thinks that the backpanel on a Tweed Fender amp is pretty harmless?

From what I've read the big risks are from repeated exposure in the workplace or industry; in other words taking the back panel off your amp twice every 20 years probably isn't going to kill you.

I mean for crap's-sake...how often do you take off the backpanel and huff it?

Also, after reading the ridiculous amount of regulations and paperwork you have to go through to dispose of it properly it seems you're better off doing nothing...or putting your backpanel in a sealed bag and replacing it with a repro as already suggested.

...now to move on to the next topic...lead solder that's non-ROHS compliant.





FWIW:
"McQueen had been surrounded by asbestos all of his life. As a young adult, McQueen was employed in the construction industry, where asbestos was often present at job sites. While serving as a Marine, McQueen worked at shipyards where he was responsible for stripping asbestos off the pipes used in naval ships (asbestos was used in the insulation of modern ships built before 1976). It has also been suggested that McQueen, an avid car racer, may have been exposed to asbestos when repairing the brake linings of race cars and/or wearing the protective helmets and driving suits associated with the sport."

"No one is entirely sure how Warren developed mesothelioma. While Warren had been smoking for almost thirty years before quitting in 1996, the cause of mesothelioma is exposure to asbestos. After Warren died, his son Jordan discussed his theory as to how Warren contracted it. Warren’s father owned a carpet store in Arizona, and when Warren was quite young, he used to play in the attic, which was loaded with asbestos. It is unclear whether or not his apartment building contained asbestos"

In other words both had repeated exposure to airborne asbestos particles.

Very True. I read information from from the US EPA and
Asbestos Ombudsman and National Cancer Institute of America. All said the
danger is, prolonged exposure to high concentrations of asbestos. Namely
those working in industries where they are exposed on a daily basis, 8 hrs
per day, 5 days per week over many years. This allows fibers to accumulate
in the lungs over time.

[jhundt]

here's all you guys playing around with 600+ Volts of DC, and you're worrying about a little asbestos...

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Schwalbe

People who work with asbestos containing materials on a regular basis account for the highest levels of asbestos exposure. Certain jobs and work environments, like mining, factory work, ship building, and construction work, are more likely to result in asbestos exposure than others.

Mmkay. Relevance?

- Scott

[charlie cash]

People who work with asbestos containing materials on a regular basis account for the highest levels of asbestos exposure. Certain jobs and work environments, like mining, factory work, ship building, and construction work, are more likely to result in asbestos exposure than others. Studies have even shown that even the family members of asbestos workers have suffered asbestos exposure from fibers brought home on the workers' clothing.

Asbestosis, scarring of the lungs caused by asbestos fibers trapped in the lung tissue, is caused by high levels of exposure as described above.
Mesothelioma, cancer of the pleural lining of the lung, can be caused by a single breif exposure to asbestos. Some doctors who have studied the disease believe it can be caused by the inhalation of a single, asbestos fiber and there are many cases documented from low levels of exposure. Nothing else causes the disease, and even among those with high level of exposure it is relatively rare. I'm not saying you should panic about the asbestos, but treat it with caution.

[59TweedVibrolux]

Had a quote from a Professional Commercial Removal Company (30yrs) in the
Business....... 2 panels - $55 ($52 USD) includes Tax. They pick up.
Not too bad.

[simon]

Maybe this is a stupid question: what amps are free of asbestos? I have a silverface 70's Pull Boost Fender Deluxe Reverb. And if you say "all tweed amps" people could think there would be asbestos inside a modern Tweed-Replica. I am owner of two tweed Champ replicas - by any chance could there be asbestos in it? Or do I understand correctly that any amp built after the 1960's will be asbestos-free? I just don't know.

[GUITARmole]

Originally Posted by 59TweedVibrolux

Had a quote from a Professional Commercial Removal Company (30yrs) in the
Business....... 2 panels - $55 ($52 USD) includes Tax. They pick up.
Not too bad.

Or you just sell an original '59 Vibrolux backpanel on fleabay and they pay you $200 to take it away

[Silverface]

Simon, go back a few posts - that was already answered.

"So am I the only one that after reading up on asbestos hazards thinks that the backpanel on a Tweed Fender amp is pretty harmless?"

No, and I answered the question as a pro. The Zevon and McQueen references are irrelevant, inflammatory and ridiculous statements made by amateurs. Bumped in a car trunk? Uh, that's not going to create friable asbestos. his kind of stuff is just how it got ridiculously out of hand in the 80's. If it was truly like that I'd be making millions.

I do think the $50 price is a darned good deal if they are really a certified abatement house. If I was personally that concerned, that's a good option.

But it's just not a big issue.

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by Silverface

Simon, go back a few posts - that was already answered.

"So am I the only one that after reading up on asbestos hazards thinks that the backpanel on a Tweed Fender amp is pretty harmless?"

No, and I answered the question as a pro. The Zevon and McQueen references are irrelevant, inflammatory and ridiculous statements made by amateurs. Bumped in a car trunk? Uh, that's not going to create friable asbestos. his kind of stuff is just how it got ridiculously out of hand in the 80's. If it was truly like that I'd be making millions.

I do think the $50 price is a darned good deal if they are really a certified abatement house. If I was personally that concerned, that's a good option.

But it's just not a big issue.

Thanks Jim, Yes the are a certified firm
EPA Licensed and Insured. They will come and pick up. So that price is very
reasonable for 2 panels. I will do a couple more after I see how they go with
these. The material on the panels looks like it was done yesterday, so it is
holding up extremely well after all this time. You would, as you say, have to
cut, drill or sand / scratch it many times to get it friable. As it is, its solid.
But in case of future possible sale ? I thought I should get it prof removed.
Thanks again for your learned comments as a professional.

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by simon

Maybe this is a stupid question: what amps are free of asbestos? I have a silverface 70's Pull Boost Fender Deluxe Reverb. And if you say "all tweed amps" people could think there would be asbestos inside a modern Tweed-Replica. I am owner of two tweed Champ replicas - by any chance could there be asbestos in it? Or do I understand correctly that any amp built after the 1960's will be asbestos-free? I just don't know.

Hi Simon, no as Jim (Siverface) mentioned. If you go back, I mentioned all
Tweed Era 1950 - 1961 Amps had it, owing to their design. The back panel
covers the exposed chassis/ circuitry. Leo put it there to protect against
any Heat, RF Waves. A Good thing but back then they were unaware of the
hazards of this material in a friable form.

Black Face, Brown, Blond, Silverface amps have a different design whereby
the chassis slides in and out. The top of the cab covering the open chassis.
Thats why you see the metal mesh attached to the underside of the top of
the cabs on those amps. No Asbestos sheet was used on these amps.

Similarly NO modern replica Tweed amp has it either. As use of the material
is now banned, builders don't use it. I have a Clark Beaufort 5E-3 Replica,
beautiful amp. Back panel is bare, just wood / tweed cloth. As modern
Transformers are shielded the need for shielding on the rear panel is not
required, and heat hasn't been a problem with normal use. Used for excessive
lengths of time, wood might warp a little, but not catch fire.

[charlie chitlin]

I think there are 2 pro hazmat people who answered this question.
I would tend to take their advice.

[beach bob]

Originally Posted by charlie frey

I think there are 2 pro hazmat people who answered this question.
I would tend to take their advice.

+1

Silverface's posts have been especially enlightening, and are much appreciated. Don't let the alarmist / anecdotal posts bug you.

[Silverface]

What beach bob said. That's what always creates mountains out of molehills.

10:1 odds the alarmists either don't own a tweed...or never knew until this thread what was ON the back panel!

'scuse me - I'm a little hungry and gotta go gnaw some lead paint ships off the windowsill....

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by Silverface

What beach bob said. That's what always creates mountains out of molehills.

10:1 odds the alarmists either don't own a tweed...or never knew until this thread what was ON the back panel!

'scuse me - I'm a little hungry and gotta go gnaw some lead paint ships off the windowsill....

Thanks Jim & Beach Bob

[Schwalbe]

Originally Posted by Silverface

What beach bob said. That's what always creates mountains out of molehills.

10:1 odds the alarmists either don't own a tweed...or never knew until this thread what was ON the back panel!

'scuse me - I'm a little hungry and gotta go gnaw some lead paint ships off the windowsill....

Well now there's a solid stack of BS.
Who are these Hazmat pros and what credentials have they offered?
Don't bother responding to this post, you guys have reminded me of why I seldom post on this board.
Have fun with that lead paint, ya'll need your minerals.
Seeya

[Silverface]

"what credentials have they offered?"

Well, I guess why you don't post here is is you don't read.

Go back and check my posts, and feel free to email me for my resume if you're still unclear...

Sheesh. Like I said...

[beach bob]

another drive by shooting ....

must be slow on certain other boards today