Anybody ever build an amp with no knobs?

Darcy Hoover · June 5th, 2008, 05:14 PM

Just curious. My BFPR rebuild is the first amp I don't have to mess with the settings continuously to get what I want. I just have it set up and do everything from the Tele, crank the Tele up for crunch, back it off for clean, pup selection and guitar tone controls are more than I need to get everything I'm looking for....thinking it'd be easy to measure the resistance of the various pots at these settings and replace them with resistors. I wouldn't do it with this amp of course but just wondering if anybody ever has. I remember reading a John Lee Hooker interview (at least I think it was John Lee Hooker) where he claimed so much beer was spilt on his amp over the years you could never move the knobs anyway.

eugenedunn · June 5th, 2008, 05:30 PM

That's interesting Darcy! When I have my SFPR totally cranked (almost always), I find that I end up diming bass, and treble is about 8-9 anyway. This setting seems to work best for cutting through the mix when playing with the band at high volumes. If I'm playing by myself, I might back off the Bass and Treble a notch or two, but nothing really changes much.

Resistors WOULD work!

Likewise in general, I control it all from the axe end.....

I have an old 46 Princeton Woodie that only has 2-inputs. No controls at all.

My 48 Gibson BR9 amp is only slightly better with a single volume knob.

emu! · June 5th, 2008, 05:30 PM

I have a DIY tweed princeton with a single vol and single tone knob...but I always leave the vol at max and the tone at halfway.

tiktok · June 5th, 2008, 06:00 PM

That Brian May AC30 a few years ago was pretty close--they took his favorite settings and hardwired the amp for everything except volume. So, it's a one-knob hand-wired AC30.

Chris Callahan · June 5th, 2008, 06:44 PM

There were some Forties Fenders with no knobs (there's knobs on the guitar for that).

Scott S · June 5th, 2008, 08:27 PM

I've done the amp-with-no-knobs (except volume) thing before, and while it's cool in a way, it's frustrating when you want to actually use it. You WILL end up wanting to plug in other guitars, or play at different volume levels. Since you're going to end up with just as many components shaping the tone, you won't improve the noise floor by leaving out the knbos either. Think of how much more expensive it will be when you have to swap speakers or pickups to chase the tone in your head, as opposed to twiddling knobs!

- Scott

Paul in Colorado · June 6th, 2008, 02:30 AM

In the early '60's Epiphone made a guitar/amp combination where all the controls were on the guitar. I don't know if the preamp was built into the guitar or if it used regular controls. I think it had a special cable. I'll see if I can find an internet link.

trag-o-caster · June 6th, 2008, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul in Colorado

In the early '60's Epiphone made a guitar/amp combination where all the controls were on the guitar. I don't know if the preamp was built into the guitar or if it used regular controls. I think it had a special cable. I'll see if I can find an internet link.

Here's one....

Epiphone

Quote:

The Professional outfit was sold as a guitar and amplifier package. They are useless on their own! All controls for operating the amp are built into the guitar - as well as volume and tone, there is tremolo and reverb, tonal changes are "actuated by five 'tonexpressor' switches". The amplifier itself is 15w or 35w, and can not be used independently.

Interesting, but not my idea of a good time.

David Barnett · June 6th, 2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiktok

That Brian May AC30 a few years ago was pretty close--they took his favorite settings and hardwired the amp for everything except volume. So, it's a one-knob hand-wired AC30.

There's not really any "favorite settings" to duplicate with May. He uses the "Normal" input on an AC30 and the rest is disabled. On the "Normal" channel there's only a volume control and the "Cut" tone control on the power amp. The BM AC30 doesn't have the "Cut" either.

maiga · June 6th, 2008, 03:44 AM

http://www.smokeyamps.com/index.html

These things are so much fun. And don't have a single knob!

Big John · June 6th, 2008, 04:28 AM

I saw Dan Armstrong demo his amps in our little town in the 70's, just a row of EQ sliders and one for volume and he could emulate a Fender, a Marshall, an Ampeg and just about any amp you could name, very neat idea that never caught on.

Ptrallan01 · June 6th, 2008, 01:42 PM

Wouldn't that be a modelling amp?

Big John · June 6th, 2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ptrallan01

Wouldn't that be a modelling amp?

Well, in his hands , kinda "Yes" really.
He explained how amps have certain frequency 'responses' and 'curves' and he just altered the bank of sliders to mimic that, it was never A,B'd with another amp on the night but the difference between the Marshall and Fender tones was quite marked and i wouldn't argue with Dan Armstrong.
OK, i'm a good deal older, wiser and more cynical and realise all the different parts that make up an amp's 'tone' but it does seem a neat, simple idea, maybe if one volume slider cascaded into the other you could get a little 'grit' in your tone too.

JohnnyCrash · June 6th, 2008, 04:50 PM

I wouldn't do that with something like a BFPR style amp. I'd just mark the controls with masking tape. You never know when you need to adjust for a club's room acoustics, a different guitar (single vs humbuckers, etc), or a friend borrowing the amp. Besides, tastes can change over the years.

For more primitive amps, it could be really cool.

I am thinking about building another 5w amp, with no controls... just plug in and it's open wide.

4 Strings · June 7th, 2008, 04:57 AM

We had a "Simplest amp (not yet) alive" thread here a couple of months ago.
I'm thinking about building a Champ-style amp with nothing but an input, a pilot light and an on/off-switch. In that thread somebodu gave the Carling Parts no for a switch that would double as an on/off and stby-switch, so that you could have stdby on your amp without having to use another switch for it.

Such an amp, perhaps with a 10" or 12" and a slightly beefed up OT would be nice.

JohnnyCrash · June 7th, 2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Strings

We had a "Simplest amp (not yet) alive" thread here a couple of months ago.
I'm thinking about building a Champ-style amp with nothing but an input, a pilot light and an on/off-switch. In that thread somebodu gave the Carling Parts no for a switch that would double as an on/off and stby-switch, so that you could have stdby on your amp without having to use another switch for it.

Such an amp, perhaps with a 10" or 12" and a slightly beefed up OT would be nice.

I've got a Gibson GA5 build using a 10" and it sounds great. I also run my 5f1-ish Champ head through 2x12"s or even a 15" Jensen P15N... great sounds.

Do you still have that part number for the 3-way Power/Standby switch? I'd like to put one in my 5E3 build since the ground switch is for changing from 5Y3 to SS rectifiers on mine.

sjhusting · June 7th, 2008, 04:38 PM

Johnny I don't have the part number but you can get it here - http://westlabs.com/Switches.HTML

or you can just wire up a center-off dpdt to do it, like this:

http://www.netads.com/~meo/Guitar/Am...s/standby.html

If you get a 3pdt, you can even switch both sides of the primary (required in the EU). I know, you're in california, but I still think it's better.

steven

benadrian · June 7th, 2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjhusting

Johnny I don't have the part number but you can get it here - http://westlabs.com/Switches.HTML

or you can just wire up a center-off dpdt to do it, like this:

http://www.netads.com/~meo/Guitar/Am...s/standby.html

If you get a 3pdt, you can even switch both sides of the primary (required in the EU). I know, you're in california, but I still think it's better.

steven

Remember, if you have a tube rectifier, the preamp and power amp tubes can't get high voltage until the rectifier tube warms up. By the time the rectifier tube warms up, the preamp and power amp tubes should be warm enough to handle the high voltage without cathode stripping.

Ben

apossibleworld · June 8th, 2008, 01:44 AM

My friend has a Rickenbacher amp from the 30s that not only has no knobs, it doesn't even have a power switch. It just turns on when you plug in the power! It's an awesome amp. Maybe it could use a hidden standby switch just for warm-up.

4 Strings · June 8th, 2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

I've got a Gibson GA5 build using a 10" and it sounds great. I also run my 5f1-ish Champ head through 2x12"s or even a 15" Jensen P15N... great sounds.

Do you still have that part number for the 3-way Power/Standby switch? I'd like to put one in my 5E3 build since the ground switch is for changing from 5Y3 to SS rectifiers on mine.

JC! From what I was told the Carling parts no should be 2GGA1-7.
The DPTTP switch in sjhusting's link seems to be the right one for that application though.

A.

charlie chitlin · June 8th, 2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apossibleworld

My friend has a Rickenbacher amp from the 30s that not only has no knobs, it doesn't even have a power switch. It just turns on when you plug in the power! It's an awesome amp. Maybe it could use a hidden standby switch just for warm-up.

Yup...a guy I used to play with in NY used to blow harp through one of these.
Serious honk.

JohnnyCrash · June 8th, 2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benadrian

Remember, if you have a tube rectifier, the preamp and power amp tubes can't get high voltage until the rectifier tube warms up. By the time the rectifier tube warms up, the preamp and power amp tubes should be warm enough to handle the high voltage without cathode stripping.

The whole debate over cathode stripping is still wide open. A slow heat rectifier aside, I've routinely used no-standby power in several of my builds and have had no ill effects to tubes. Some folks have been running amps like that for years. If the cathodes are really stripping, they must be using stage names and doing so in clubs I don't frequent.

I still use standby switches in most builds anyway, more out of a convenient mute switch than anything else. The higher plate voltages most people like to build amps with these days will eat a tube faster than cathode stripping so to will general heat wear and tear.

As far as the 3 way standby, thanks sjhusting and 4 Strings!

June 5th, 2008, 05:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Darcy Hoover Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 511	Anybody ever build an amp with no knobs? Just curious. My BFPR rebuild is the first amp I don't have to mess with the settings continuously to get what I want. I just have it set up and do everything from the Tele, crank the Tele up for crunch, back it off for clean, pup selection and guitar tone controls are more than I need to get everything I'm looking for....thinking it'd be easy to measure the resistance of the various pots at these settings and replace them with resistors. I wouldn't do it with this amp of course but just wondering if anybody ever has. I remember reading a John Lee Hooker interview (at least I think it was John Lee Hooker) where he claimed so much beer was spilt on his amp over the years you could never move the knobs anyway. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/darcyhoover

June 5th, 2008, 06:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
tiktok Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,190	That Brian May AC30 a few years ago was pretty close--they took his favorite settings and hardwired the amp for everything except volume. So, it's a one-knob hand-wired AC30. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/travishartnett http://www.myspace.com/sugarcanemutiny Pearce Amps Info Page

June 5th, 2008, 06:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chris Callahan Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson AZ Age: 44 Posts: 416	There were some Forties Fenders with no knobs (there's knobs on the guitar for that). __________________ Chris

June 6th, 2008, 02:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 56 Posts: 4,450 3 Photos	In the early '60's Epiphone made a guitar/amp combination where all the controls were on the guitar. I don't know if the preamp was built into the guitar or if it used regular controls. I think it had a special cable. I'll see if I can find an internet link. __________________ www.tuatha.net

June 6th, 2008, 04:28 AM	#11 (permalink)
Big John Friend of Leo's Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Suffolk UK Posts: 4,874 36 Photos	I saw Dan Armstrong demo his amps in our little town in the 70's, just a row of EQ sliders and one for volume and he could emulate a Fender, a Marshall, an Ampeg and just about any amp you could name, very neat idea that never caught on. __________________ If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly !!

June 5th, 2008, 05:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
eugenedunn Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sacramento, CA Age: 55 Posts: 839 37 Photos	That's interesting Darcy! When I have my SFPR totally cranked (almost always), I find that I end up diming bass, and treble is about 8-9 anyway. This setting seems to work best for cutting through the mix when playing with the band at high volumes. If I'm playing by myself, I might back off the Bass and Treble a notch or two, but nothing really changes much. Resistors WOULD work! Likewise in general, I control it all from the axe end..... I have an old 46 Princeton Woodie that only has 2-inputs. No controls at all. My 48 Gibson BR9 amp is only slightly better with a single volume knob.

June 5th, 2008, 05:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
emu! Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Location Location Posts: 1,292	I have a DIY tweed princeton with a single vol and single tone knob...but I always leave the vol at max and the tone at halfway.

June 5th, 2008, 08:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,922	I've done the amp-with-no-knobs (except volume) thing before, and while it's cool in a way, it's frustrating when you want to actually use it. You WILL end up wanting to plug in other guitars, or play at different volume levels. Since you're going to end up with just as many components shaping the tone, you won't improve the noise floor by leaving out the knbos either. Think of how much more expensive it will be when you have to swap speakers or pickups to chase the tone in your head, as opposed to twiddling knobs! - Scott

June 6th, 2008, 03:44 AM	#10 (permalink)
maiga Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 125 4 Photos	http://www.smokeyamps.com/index.html These things are so much fun. And don't have a single knob!

June 6th, 2008, 01:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ptrallan01 Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 571 3 Photos	Hey Big John Wouldn't that be a modelling amp? __________________ Ooh, I want my guitar to sound like Jimmie Smith's organ!!!

June 6th, 2008, 04:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	I wouldn't do that with something like a BFPR style amp. I'd just mark the controls with masking tape. You never know when you need to adjust for a club's room acoustics, a different guitar (single vs humbuckers, etc), or a friend borrowing the amp. Besides, tastes can change over the years. For more primitive amps, it could be really cool. I am thinking about building another 5w amp, with no controls... just plug in and it's open wide.

June 7th, 2008, 04:57 AM	#15 (permalink)
4 Strings Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Gossip County Posts: 294	We had a "Simplest amp (not yet) alive" thread here a couple of months ago. I'm thinking about building a Champ-style amp with nothing but an input, a pilot light and an on/off-switch. In that thread somebodu gave the Carling Parts no for a switch that would double as an on/off and stby-switch, so that you could have stdby on your amp without having to use another switch for it. Such an amp, perhaps with a 10" or 12" and a slightly beefed up OT would be nice. __________________ We shall not cease from modifying our amps. And the end of all our modifying will be to arrive where we started and know the circuit for the first time.

June 7th, 2008, 04:38 PM	#17 (permalink)
sjhusting Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 684 15 Photos	Johnny I don't have the part number but you can get it here - http://westlabs.com/Switches.HTML or you can just wire up a center-off dpdt to do it, like this: http://www.netads.com/~meo/Guitar/Am...s/standby.html If you get a 3pdt, you can even switch both sides of the primary (required in the EU). I know, you're in california, but I still think it's better. steven __________________ "When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite" - WSC

June 8th, 2008, 01:44 AM	#19 (permalink)
apossibleworld TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 15	My friend has a Rickenbacher amp from the 30s that not only has no knobs, it doesn't even have a power switch. It just turns on when you plug in the power! It's an awesome amp. Maybe it could use a hidden standby switch just for warm-up.