Mission 5E3 Kit... - Page 4

koen · June 13th, 2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleamp

That's the fun part. There's a special tool, but you can get by with a pair of pliers. Pre compress the strain relief onto the cord with the pliers and the grip what will be the outer lip with the pliers and push it in, it takes a little work

And which side goes where? I think the big part goes on the outside of the chassis, is that right?

teleamp · June 13th, 2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koen

And which side goes where? I think the big part goes on the outside of the chassis, is that right?

Yes, if you start with two pair of pliers, first compress it with the cord as if the pliers were the chassis, you'll have just enough of the part that goes into the chassis and the cord sticking out of the side of the pliers, while keeping pressure with the pliers, feed the cord into the chassis and try to get the strain relief started in, then take the second pair of pliers and squeeze the strain relief from the end and push (have the chassis supported somehow) the strain relief into the chassis.

If you can't get it, i'll try to get some pics up tomorrow.

sjhusting · June 13th, 2008, 01:56 AM

I use these instead:
http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/pro...nd-6-3-mm.html
No need for a special tool, and the strain relief is better.

steven

koen · June 13th, 2008, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleamp

If you can't get it, i'll try to get some pics up tomorrow.

That would be nice. Thanks!

BTW, should I have done that before soldering the power cord?

JohnnyCrash · June 13th, 2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewB

"It takes a little work" = "It's a PITA!" That's the part I always dread and end up cussing about. If I built more frequently, I'd either buy the expensive tool or figure out a solution. Probably the former...

Yep. I squished some index finger skin meat in a pair of pliers trying to get that strain relief grommet in.

I also tried a big plastic screw in type (tightened against the cord as it screwed in) a few times.

Most of my builds are heads with a socket for a PC type cord, but the ones that weren't were a b!tch to get in.

Not easy and definitely not fun...

fltpkr · June 13th, 2008, 04:23 PM

What a great thread! Sure hope Koen & BBB will continue to keep updating their progress. I really, really, want to build one of these, but my knowledge is so limited I just can't go there yet. I'm just beginning to study some basic electronics, though, so maybe eventually. This thread will be an invaluable resource to anyone giving this a try.

teleamp · June 13th, 2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koen

That would be nice. Thanks!
BTW, should I have done that before soldering the power cord?

That doesn't matter and shouldn't be a problem.

Get the strain relief positioned on the cord.

Pre compress it with the cord to eas installation.

Grip from the end and push it in.

JohnnyCrash · June 13th, 2008, 05:28 PM

It seems more intimidating than it really is.

I really hope BBB sticks with it. It bums me out when someone gets discouraged and wants to take it to a repair shop... I've been there a few times myself and I hated that feeling.

BBB or keon, feel free to PM me for anything. Even if it's just a simple explanation of each part of the amp's circuit.

Stick with it!

koen · June 13th, 2008, 10:37 PM

Wow, that was easy. Thanks teleamp for the pictures! Time to turn on my soldering iron...

DrewB · June 13th, 2008, 10:37 PM

Yeah, I feel the same way, and I've been almost to the point of taking an amp to an experienced tech. My friend wouldn't let me do it: "We gotta get it!"

In my case, I have a hard time figuring out where tenacious ends and cheap begins, or vise-versa...

JohnnyCrash · June 13th, 2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewB

Yeah, I feel the same way, and I've been almost to the point of taking an amp to an experienced tech. My friend wouldn't let me do it: "We gotta get it!"

In my case, I have a hard time figuring out where tenacious ends and cheap begins, or vise-versa...

Whenever you feel like that, you can PM me. I learned too much the hard way (read as: "dumb mistakes"), so in that sense, maybe I can help a little better than a "real" amp guy :)

HAHAHA

DrewB · June 13th, 2008, 11:15 PM

I was 99% sure I had lost an OT (I was right.), but wasn't getting readings that made sense. Putting the amp on a 'scope with a signal generator running through it was confusing, too, as it turned out the 'scope probe was inducing some "crap" into the waveform that had us chasing our tails for awhile. Once we (my friend; I can't take any credit for it!) figured out what was happening, it was a no-brainer to see that we had a perfect, clean sine wave entering the OT and a low-level garbage signal coming out of it.

koen · June 14th, 2008, 12:32 AM

Getting close to the finishline...

The only thing left is connecting all the wires between the sockets, PT and the board. What's the best way to do this, put the board inplace first, or solder first?

Also lugs #6 and 7 from V3 and V4 become really hard to reach for those final connections. Any tips how to do this?

teleamp · June 14th, 2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koen

Getting close to the finishline...

The only thing left is connecting all the wires between the sockets, PT and the board. What's the best way to do this, put the board inplace first, or solder first?

Also lugs #6 and 7 from V3 and V4 become really hard to reach for those final connections. Any tips how to do this?

Here's the order I follow on a 5E3:

1) Mount the transfomers and sockets, power & standyby switch, fuse assy, and pilot lamp assy. Plus I usually wire the rectifier tube socket, switches an fuse at this time

2) Load board and solder "fly leads" to it.

3) Install board (this is easier with the pots and input jacks not installed) and solder all socket and transformer wiring.

4) Install pots and input jacks and wire up.

5) Run the filament wiring (this depends if I am laying it down or running it in the air, if laying it down, do it before wiring the sockets).

As far as lugs 6 & 7, I try to start with the hardest to reach first, take your time.

JohnnyCrash · June 14th, 2008, 02:42 PM

Needlenose pliers help me get wires in place in tight spaces.

I generally put the board in place and then mark the wires. I then pull the board out and trim and strip the leads to length. Excess wires makes it even harder in a cramped chassis.

Wire the back side pins first, then the top side ones. Otherwise, you're trying to solder past wires and this can be a pain (plus it could melt wire jackets).

milkshape · June 14th, 2008, 05:36 PM

BBB, what's the status! I was extra psyched to see a rookie amp build. Hopefully you've found the problem with the help from the experts here. Experience is the best teacher. I'm pullin' for you.

koen · June 14th, 2008, 06:09 PM

Ok, I'm done!!! - I thought....

All the wiring done, connected the speaker, put in the tubes, turned it on, plugged in the guitar, but no sound

All five tubes are glowing, and I can hear some noise (no white noise, but more a 'trrrr' sound) from the speaker, but it doesn't increase when I turn the volume pots. Well, at lest I have no smoke. I will see if I did something wrong with the input jacks or pot wiring.

Any suggestions where to start... ?

Attached is a picture of the two octal sockets, maybe someone spots an error?

BritishBluesBoy · June 14th, 2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkshape

BBB, what's the status! I was extra psyched to see a rookie amp build. Hopefully you've found the problem with the help from the experts here. Experience is the best teacher. I'm pullin' for you.

Hey man, thanks for the support!! I've had to put the build away for a bit. I've been swamped with work stuff (been working all day today too) and also needed to just clear my head a bit. I'm going to have to reorder some parts as I think I pretty much fried a few things first time around so am planning on starting over almost from scratch. Now that I have had one attempt I am aware of some bad mistakes I made in terms of the order of doing things and how to be more careful and logical next time. Also I want to do some more reading before I dive in again. I need to have a better understanding of what is going on with each section of the amp and how to trouble shoot as I go... So, I will be getting back on the horse, it'll just have to wait a while that's all... Watch this space...

And, hey - thanks again guys.... You're all very cool to be so supportive of a grumpy old bastard like me...

koen · June 14th, 2008, 06:50 PM

I think I see what I did wrong, the two 100 Ohm resistors on V3 and V4 should be reversed, ie from 2-8 on V4 and 7-8 on V3.

Can anyone confirm that?

And BBB - welcome back, man! Take your time, that's what helped me, although not completely as you can read above...

JohnnyCrash · June 14th, 2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koen

I think I see what I did wrong, the two 100 Ohm resistors on V3 and V4 should be reversed, ie from 2-8 on V4 and 7-8 on V3.

Can anyone confirm that?

And BBB - welcome back, man! Take your time, that's what helped me, although not completely as you can read above...

Is this a 5E3?

100 ohm? There are 100K plate resistors... unless you're referring to an artificial 6.3v heater Center Tap.

By "V4 and V3" you're meaning the 6V6's, right?

V1: 12AY7
V2: 12AX7
V3 and V4: 6V6's
V5: 5Y3 Rectifier

Please explain. These guys will have to help, I'm leaving for Las Vegas right now... see y'all online Monday!

koen · June 14th, 2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Is this a 5E3?

100 ohm? There are 100K plate resistors... unless you're referring to an artificial 6.3v heater Center Tap.

By "V4 and V3" you're meaning the 6V6's, right?

Please explain.

They are 100 Ohm, as provided in the Mission Amps kit (5E3). And yes, you are right on the tube naming.

teleamp · June 14th, 2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koen

Ok, I'm done!!! - I thought....

All the wiring done, connected the speaker, put in the tubes, turned it on, plugged in the guitar, but no sound

All five tubes are glowing, and I can hear some noise (no white noise, but more a 'trrrr' sound) from the speaker, but it doesn't increase when I turn the volume pots. Well, at lest I have no smoke. I will see if I did something wrong with the input jacks or pot wiring.

Any suggestions where to start... ?

Attached is a picture of the two octal sockets, maybe someone spots an error?

Not sure but it looks like something is amiss,

On the power tube sockets:
pin 1 (wire from 2nd filter cap)>470R>pin 4
pin 2 filament,
pin 3 OT blue or brown,
pin 5>1500R pin 6 (wire from .1 underboard),
pin 7 filament,
pin 8 cathode

teleamp · June 14th, 2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koen

I think I see what I did wrong, the two 100 Ohm resistors on V3 and V4 should be reversed, ie from 2-8 on V4 and 7-8 on V3.

Can anyone confirm that?

That should be OK for the faux filament CT.

koen · June 15th, 2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleamp

Not sure but it looks like something is amiss,

On the power tube sockets:
pin 1 (wire from 2nd filter cap)>470R>pin 4
pin 2 filament,
pin 3 OT blue or brown,
pin 5>1500R pin 6 (wire from .1 underboard),
pin 7 filament,
pin 8 cathode

Well, I rewired both sockets completely. Indeed something was amiss, the connections between pin 4 to 2nd cap and pin 8 to 22 uF cap were missing.

Unfortunately, some solder ended up in the hole of one of the pins, and now I cannot get the tube in position

Any idead how I can solve that?

June 13th, 2008, 01:56 AM	#123 (permalink)
sjhusting Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 684 15 Photos	I use these instead: http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/pro...nd-6-3-mm.html No need for a special tool, and the strain relief is better. steven __________________ "When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite" - WSC

June 13th, 2008, 04:23 PM	#126 (permalink)
fltpkr Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregoon Posts: 951	What a great thread! Sure hope Koen & BBB will continue to keep updating their progress. I really, really, want to build one of these, but my knowledge is so limited I just can't go there yet. I'm just beginning to study some basic electronics, though, so maybe eventually. This thread will be an invaluable resource to anyone giving this a try. __________________ The preacher says all my sins is warshed away, including that Piggly Wiggly I knocked over in Yazoo.

June 13th, 2008, 10:37 PM	#130 (permalink)
DrewB Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Independence, MO Posts: 1,108	Yeah, I feel the same way, and I've been almost to the point of taking an amp to an experienced tech. My friend wouldn't let me do it: "We gotta get it!" In my case, I have a hard time figuring out where tenacious ends and cheap begins, or vise-versa... __________________ There is no substitute for Sound Pressure Level

June 13th, 2008, 11:15 PM	#132 (permalink)
DrewB Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Independence, MO Posts: 1,108	I was 99% sure I had lost an OT (I was right.), but wasn't getting readings that made sense. Putting the amp on a 'scope with a signal generator running through it was confusing, too, as it turned out the 'scope probe was inducing some "crap" into the waveform that had us chasing our tails for awhile. Once we (my friend; I can't take any credit for it!) figured out what was happening, it was a no-brainer to see that we had a perfect, clean sine wave entering the OT and a low-level garbage signal coming out of it. __________________ There is no substitute for Sound Pressure Level

June 14th, 2008, 05:36 PM	#136 (permalink)
milkshape Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New England Posts: 392	BBB, what's the status! I was extra psyched to see a rookie amp build. Hopefully you've found the problem with the help from the experts here. Experience is the best teacher. I'm pullin' for you. __________________ No hurries, No worries.

June 13th, 2008, 05:28 PM	#128 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	It seems more intimidating than it really is. I really hope BBB sticks with it. It bums me out when someone gets discouraged and wants to take it to a repair shop... I've been there a few times myself and I hated that feeling. BBB or keon, feel free to PM me for anything. Even if it's just a simple explanation of each part of the amp's circuit. Stick with it!

June 13th, 2008, 10:37 PM	#129 (permalink)
koen Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2007 Location: East of the Mississippi Age: 44 Posts: 208 8 Photos	Wow, that was easy. Thanks teleamp for the pictures! Time to turn on my soldering iron...

June 14th, 2008, 12:32 AM	#133 (permalink)
koen Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2007 Location: East of the Mississippi Age: 44 Posts: 208 8 Photos	Getting close to the finishline... The only thing left is connecting all the wires between the sockets, PT and the board. What's the best way to do this, put the board inplace first, or solder first? Also lugs #6 and 7 from V3 and V4 become really hard to reach for those final connections. Any tips how to do this?

June 14th, 2008, 02:42 PM	#135 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	Needlenose pliers help me get wires in place in tight spaces. I generally put the board in place and then mark the wires. I then pull the board out and trim and strip the leads to length. Excess wires makes it even harder in a cramped chassis. Wire the back side pins first, then the top side ones. Otherwise, you're trying to solder past wires and this can be a pain (plus it could melt wire jackets).

June 14th, 2008, 06:09 PM	#137 (permalink)
koen Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2007 Location: East of the Mississippi Age: 44 Posts: 208 8 Photos	Ok, I'm done!!! - I thought.... All the wiring done, connected the speaker, put in the tubes, turned it on, plugged in the guitar, but no sound All five tubes are glowing, and I can hear some noise (no white noise, but more a 'trrrr' sound) from the speaker, but it doesn't increase when I turn the volume pots. Well, at lest I have no smoke. I will see if I did something wrong with the input jacks or pot wiring. Any suggestions where to start... ? Attached is a picture of the two octal sockets, maybe someone spots an error?

June 14th, 2008, 06:50 PM	#139 (permalink)
koen Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2007 Location: East of the Mississippi Age: 44 Posts: 208 8 Photos	I think I see what I did wrong, the two 100 Ohm resistors on V3 and V4 should be reversed, ie from 2-8 on V4 and 7-8 on V3. Can anyone confirm that? And BBB - welcome back, man! Take your time, that's what helped me, although not completely as you can read above...