Can a silver face Champ be modded to sound like a tweed Champ?

[klasher]

Is this do-able? Is it effective? What kind of price range should I expect to have a tech do it?

[chet]

From what I've read the silverface is the preferable option.

[mrbdxmpl]

Not here you didn't!

[chet]

Then you might be wrong.

[Scott S]

Depends on your ears -- for a "true" tweed tone, you'd need a pine cabinet and alnico speaker on top of the other mods.

Folks like me just hear the circuit changes, so the big ones are to drop the B+ and remove the tone stack.

- Scott

P.S. That said, I'm working (glacially) on a friend's BF Champ, and I'm liking the variety of tones I can get from it -- one of them being the "dull, midrangy" tone with both tone pots all the way down. This is actually a very flat frequency response, and simulates an amp with no tone controls without doing any electrical work.

[bradpdx]

Originally Posted by Scott S

Folks like me just hear the circuit changes, so the big ones are to drop the B+ and remove the tone stack.

That's pretty much what I do. I have a BF Champ with lowered B+ (about 360VDC) and a switch that bypasses the tone stack. I admit I rarely use that "tweed" switch, it makes the amp super gainy and dirty - more than I can use, really. But it has it's place in some settings.

I have a cheap Weber Sig8S in there, too. The little amp mics up really well.

[JohnnyCrash]

They can sound similar without any modifications. If you want to get technical and @n@l about it, yes, it is easy to make them sound the same. They are both so basic, there's not much to either.

A particle board baffle and pine cab versus a tweed is nothing - it is a 1x8" versus a 1x8" - you're simply not moving enough air at 8 watts to hear the cab at that point (sympathetic vibrations and what not).

A tweed can be "darker" but that is hard for me to tell given that a BF/SF has a tonestack to sorta tweak things with. I've built both, modded a few variations of each and still have difficulty choosing which I like better. I've been leaning towards the BF/SF Champ after all is said and done, lately.

Either way, you can easily make a BF/SF a tweed with about 10 minutes of soldering... it is just too simple of a circuit for them to be so drastically different though. A tweed is slightly darker and "rawer," otherwise they are very similar (unless you're some sort of Rain Man idiot-savant).

[EMan]

MPO is similar to what's been stated, it would be pretty cheap for a tech to move a few wires around to replicate the older circuit.

However, that's what you'll get - a new-ish Champ with a different circuit. The only thing that really sounds "tweed" are the old tweeds (( MPO again )).

My point here is that you can replicate the circuit, but not the sound.

[TelZilla]

Originally Posted by chet

From what I've read the silverface is the preferable option.

Not at my house...

[chet]

Originally Posted by TelZilla

Not at my house...

I didn't read anything by you on the subject.

[Silverface]

Chet - my interpretation of your comment is that you feel you've read a consensus that the SF is preferable to the tweed.

I think your interpretation of whatever it is you read is wrong, and based on what you've said so far it doesn't appear to be grounded in any personal experience with either type - just what you've read.

The question was, also "can it be done?" -not a solicitation of opinions on which type is better, especially since no criteria was given as far as the actual USE of the amp.

"What do they sound like in comparison?" is a different subject.

As far "can it be done?" the answer has been pretty well covered. It's a yes, with some qualifications. There are parts differences that make a significant difference, especially in a simple circuit. Transformers play a large part of it. But converting (you can do it simply, or more accurately - the difference primarily being the accurate change involves voltage dropping, while the simple one takes maybe an hour ) one is a reversible mod, takes little time, and some people like the results.

[jjmantele]

Here's a comparison of the SF stock, then with the tone stack bypassed. Important to note that both are dimed. At lower volumes the difference is more significant.

http://www.geocities.com/jjsant/Vibrochamp.MP3

[DavidP]

I replaced the volume pot on my SFVC with a push-pull to bypass the tone stack and still retain the vibrato (mine is on a footswitch and you should turn the intensity to zero if not using it as that still affects the circuit). I notice a substantial volume boost with the stack bypassed. I also have a Weber P8Q in the cab as well.

[strattoad]

Having done this to a silver face champ myself I can say it is a great way to get
tweed tone for low bucks.I removed the negative feed back and the tone controls. Changed the by-pass cap on the first stage to suit my strat tastes.Ripped out the baffle and installed a new one with a Jensen P10r ri. The higher voltages make for a louder amp than a real 5f1 tweed. Damn near as loud as my Clark deluxe. It is a great way to learn about amp tone.

[DADGAD]

Turn the BASS and TREBLE controls to ZERO = instant Silverface to tweed voicing mod.