Tweed Deluxe clean vs JTM45 clean?

791979 · May 8th, 2008, 02:51 AM

I have been convinced for a good while that I need a 5e3 and a JTM45 in my life. Lately I have become a big fan of playing through clean(ish) settings and hitting the amp with a boost/OD when needed.

If it helps, I'm pretty big on single coil pickups. I like playing classic rock & blues music, but want to get a really pretty, harmonically full clean as my base tone that will turn nice and nasty with the twist of the vol knob (or hitting it with a good pedal).

So, I'm trying to decide which of these amps to go for 1st. How does the 5e3 clean compare to the JTM45?

RomanS · May 8th, 2008, 05:15 AM

No 5E3 experience here, but I use a JTM45 clone (Weber 6M45 kit with some mods) and KT66 tubes as an amp for clean tones:
The clean tone on that one is not very Fender-y, if you'd define Fender clean as that of a BF Twin or other BF amp. It is much fuller in the mids, with less sparkle on top; warmer & darker than the Fender tone, great for jazzy stuff, or for "pretty" sounding clean tones; not the best choice for twangy stuff.
Oh, and the JTM45 has TONS of bass on tap - un-modded you can barely turn the bass pot up above 10 or 11 o'clock; there's a very simple mod for that, though, which tightens up the bass and gives the bass pot a more useable range.

Ricky D. · May 8th, 2008, 05:44 AM

I use a 5E3 with a vintage style tele partscaster. The cleans in the bright channel, amp tone @ 12, are huge, fat, and crisp, just gorgeous.

The amp has a touch sensitive sweet spot a mile wide.

I set the amp volume such that I have the clean sound I want with the guitar volume rolled back. Advancing the guitar volume takes it through the sweet spot into full OD. I have an RC kit on the guitar volume so things don't get muddy with the guitar volume down.

Sorry, can't tell you about Marshall, no experience there.

Durtdog · May 8th, 2008, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky D.

I use a 5E3 with a vintage style tele partscaster. The cleans in the bright channel, amp tone @ 12, are huge, fat, and crisp, just gorgeous.

The amp has a touch sensitive sweet spot a mile wide.

I quoted RickyD because I wanted to say the same thing about the Marshall and couldn't have written it any better.

The Marshall does have more headroom with volume because of higher wattage. Marshall cleans are vastly underrated. You can also jump the channels and get lots of good tones.

I'e been a lifelong Fender and Musicman player, but gigged a Marhsall Bluesbreaker (virtually a JTM45) for a couple of years and was completely bowled over, it was an absolute joy to play live. Rich, rich cleans.

You should try both for yourself, I could be happy and productive with either one.

giogolf · May 8th, 2008, 09:39 AM

Well my version of a 5e3 (li'l Dawg Deluxe) will not do clean at gigable or rehearsal levels. At 3 on the volume I am in to AC/DC territory. So if clean is what you want get a SF Fender Princeton

791979 · May 8th, 2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giogolf

Well my version of a 5e3 (li'l Dawg Deluxe) will not do clean at gigable or rehearsal levels. At 3 on the volume I am in to AC/DC territory. So if clean is what you want get a SF Fender Princeton

Do you have a 12AX7 in V1? I know the 5e3 doesn't have a lot of clean headroom, but I expected it would have some.

I can always mic the thing up, but it needs some clean. Yours sounds like it has really no clean headroom at all... Is that normal?

giogolf · May 8th, 2008, 10:03 AM

I have a 12ay7 in V1, 12ax7 in V2, and to 6L6, all Nos. My deluxe is putting out double the power most kits are. However, the circuit is identical to a late 50's 5e3.

You could mic the clean, but I think at such a low volume you wouldn't be getting any real tone out of it. Again this is my opinion, and I am new 5e3 user.

791979 · May 8th, 2008, 10:14 AM

Well, I'm a bit surprised especially as you have 6L6's... Maybe I should get a DRRI, 5e3 and a JTM45

giogolf · May 8th, 2008, 10:17 AM

The only thing a DR and 5e3 have in common is they both have Deluxe in their names. The cleans are not comparable at all. The 5e3 is an overdrive monster in my opinion.

giogolf · May 8th, 2008, 10:19 AM

If you are going to use a OD pedal and want a real nice clean tone get a Princeton. If you want a bit more power get a DR. Either of those amps with a Tube Screamer will do the trick.

Jim L · May 8th, 2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giogolf

The only thing a DR and 5e3 have in common is they both have Deluxe in their names. The cleans are not comparable at all. The 5e3 is an overdrive monster in my opinion.

There are tweed circuits that will give up some nice cleans before reaching overdrive, but typically not a 5e3 circuit. At least not at a non-mic'd gig volume.

The JTM45 was based more on a Tweed Bassman than anything else, wasn't it?

791979 · May 8th, 2008, 10:34 AM

Gig volume clean isn't a requirement of mine at all (at least not un-mic'ed). I

You are correct the Bassman & the JTM45 are essentially the same amp. Main differences are the power tubes as I understand it. Then of course the Marshall cab of the day was very different to the Bassman one. I have read that a JTM45 through a Bassman cab sounds very like a Bassman.

giogolf · May 8th, 2008, 10:42 AM

Also, if you are looking into the 5e3, the volume knob's are very different than what you maybe used to. From 0-2 you get a gradual increase with a decent clean tone, but once you go to 3 the volume jumps with overdriven tones, and it is no longer a bedroom amp.

791979 · May 8th, 2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giogolf

Also, if you are looking into the 5e3, the volume knob's are very different than what you maybe used to. From 0-2 you get a gradual increase with a decent clean tone, but once you go to 3 the volume jumps with overdriven tones, and it is no longer a bedroom amp.

Thanks for that, I actually use a non master volume amp now so I am familiar with this concept. I don't play in the bedroom, so no problem there

But really I think this is getting a little off topic. I was really interested in comparing the quality of the 5e3 clean to the JTM45.

Wally · May 8th, 2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 791979

Thanks for that, I actually use a non master volume amp now so I am familiar with this concept. I don't play in the bedroom, so no problem there

But really I think this is getting a little off topic. I was really interested in comparing the quality of the 5e3 clean to the JTM45.

The JTM 45 will yield more headroom, and therefore is a more giggable amp if you are looking for some cleans in a band situation. AS noted earlier in the thread, the JTM 45 is essentially a 5F6A Bassman....and a 5F6A will lay a 5E3 out for final services in the volume, punch and headroom department.

Durtdog · May 8th, 2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

The JTM 45 will yield more headroom, and therefore is a more giggable amp if you are looking for some cleans in a band situation. AS noted earlier in the thread, the JTM 45 is essentially a 5F6A Bassman....and a 5F6A will lay a 5E3 out for final services in the volume, punch and headroom department.

I would like to amend my earlier comments and agree with you wholeheatedly. MUCH more giggable amp for cleans.

giogolf · May 8th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Ok, so on topic: JTM 45/Bassman will yield a cleaner tones with more headroom than a 5e3.

woodman · May 8th, 2008, 01:52 PM

when i'm thinking of clean sound, neither one of those models springs to mind ....

4 Strings · May 8th, 2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

The JTM 45 will yield more headroom, and therefore is a more giggable amp if you are looking for some cleans in a band situation. AS noted earlier in the thread, the JTM 45 is essentially a 5F6A Bassman....and a 5F6A will lay a 5E3 out for final services in the volume, punch and headroom department.

+1

I just love the way my 5E3 sounds clean at bedroom levels. I built it to get its fabled OD tones, but I was absolutely stunned at how nice it sounds clean. However, I really wouldn't depend on it as a clean amp at a gig. JMHO, but it is too quiet to be of any use unless you've got a really quiet band. Good thing here is that the only thing I can think of that sounds better than a 5E3 clean is a 5E3 at overdrive!

The only solution is to build a 5E3, a 5F6A, a Deluxe Reverb clone and a JTM45! Your saying "I have 1. been convinced for 2. a good while that 3. I need a 5e3 and a JTM45 in my life" is a very promising sign!

Scott S · May 8th, 2008, 04:16 PM

Don't forget an 18-watt!

- Scott

chabby · May 8th, 2008, 04:19 PM

Not underrated to me - I've always loved Marshall cleans. STill, the best clean I've ever heard is my Bogner Shiva which is an EL34 80 watt amp.
I tried to post a sample of it, but this site doesn't accept mp3's apparently.

RomanS · May 8th, 2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodman

when i'm thinking of clean sound, neither one of those models springs to mind ....

Well, as for the JTM45 - maybe not an "American"/twangy country clean, but this amp has quite a bit of headroom before it starts to crunch; doesn't the guy from the Red Hot Chili Peppers use a JTM45 for his clean sounds?

For slightly darker, jazzy/bluesy cleans, IMHO the JTM45 is one of the best amps available...

BTW, I don't play mine the traditional way through a 4x12" cab, but through an open-back cab loaded with 1x10" and 1x12".

OaklandA · May 8th, 2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giogolf

Also, if you are looking into the 5e3, the volume knob's are very different than what you maybe used to. From 0-2 you get a gradual increase with a decent clean tone, but once you go to 3 the volume jumps with overdriven tones, and it is no longer a bedroom amp.

Could depend also on where the volume is set on the other channel. I had a Li'L Dawg D-Lux and got very usable cleans. But I also had a JBL clone for a speaker. That is a factor obviously.

OaklandA · May 8th, 2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodman

when i'm thinking of clean sound, neither one of those models springs to mind ....

JTM-45's get great cleans. People never talk about it because the crunch is so awesome. But they actually have decent headroom and nice fat cleans as Roman alluded to.

I would agree that the 5e3 is not known for cleans and it really isn't what that amp is for.

The best for Fender cleans at usable volume IMO is a SF Pro Reverb. Sweet...beyond compare, and lighter than a Twin.

JohnnyCrash · May 8th, 2008, 09:34 PM

It's like comparing an early low power tweed with a late high power tweed Bassman (with a warmer midrange).

Cleans? Go with the JTM45. If you have an attenuator the JTM45 can cover it all.

Angus Young uses a JTM45 often for solos... but at that volume you're neighbors will kill you.

May 8th, 2008, 02:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
791979 TDPRI Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alicante, España Posts: 46	Tweed Deluxe clean vs JTM45 clean? I have been convinced for a good while that I need a 5e3 and a JTM45 in my life. Lately I have become a big fan of playing through clean(ish) settings and hitting the amp with a boost/OD when needed. If it helps, I'm pretty big on single coil pickups. I like playing classic rock & blues music, but want to get a really pretty, harmonically full clean as my base tone that will turn nice and nasty with the twist of the vol knob (or hitting it with a good pedal). So, I'm trying to decide which of these amps to go for 1st. How does the 5e3 clean compare to the JTM45? __________________ "the circle must be broken"

May 8th, 2008, 05:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
RomanS Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vienna, Austria Age: 36 Posts: 2,394 14 Photos	No 5E3 experience here, but I use a JTM45 clone (Weber 6M45 kit with some mods) and KT66 tubes as an amp for clean tones: The clean tone on that one is not very Fender-y, if you'd define Fender clean as that of a BF Twin or other BF amp. It is much fuller in the mids, with less sparkle on top; warmer & darker than the Fender tone, great for jazzy stuff, or for "pretty" sounding clean tones; not the best choice for twangy stuff. Oh, and the JTM45 has TONS of bass on tap - un-modded you can barely turn the bass pot up above 10 or 11 o'clock; there's a very simple mod for that, though, which tightens up the bass and gives the bass pot a more useable range. __________________ http://www.pbase.com/romans http://www.myspace.com/romans212

May 8th, 2008, 10:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
791979 TDPRI Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alicante, España Posts: 46	Well, I'm a bit surprised especially as you have 6L6's... Maybe I should get a DRRI, 5e3 and a JTM45 __________________ "the circle must be broken"

May 8th, 2008, 10:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
791979 TDPRI Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alicante, España Posts: 46	Gig volume clean isn't a requirement of mine at all (at least not un-mic'ed). I You are correct the Bassman & the JTM45 are essentially the same amp. Main differences are the power tubes as I understand it. Then of course the Marshall cab of the day was very different to the Bassman one. I have read that a JTM45 through a Bassman cab sounds very like a Bassman. __________________ "the circle must be broken"

May 8th, 2008, 01:52 PM	#18 (permalink)
woodman Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 4,397	when i'm thinking of clean sound, neither one of those models springs to mind .... __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

May 8th, 2008, 05:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ricky D. Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 417	I use a 5E3 with a vintage style tele partscaster. The cleans in the bright channel, amp tone @ 12, are huge, fat, and crisp, just gorgeous. The amp has a touch sensitive sweet spot a mile wide. I set the amp volume such that I have the clean sound I want with the guitar volume rolled back. Advancing the guitar volume takes it through the sweet spot into full OD. I have an RC kit on the guitar volume so things don't get muddy with the guitar volume down. Sorry, can't tell you about Marshall, no experience there.

May 8th, 2008, 09:39 AM	#5 (permalink)
giogolf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 118	Well my version of a 5e3 (li'l Dawg Deluxe) will not do clean at gigable or rehearsal levels. At 3 on the volume I am in to AC/DC territory. So if clean is what you want get a SF Fender Princeton

May 8th, 2008, 10:03 AM	#7 (permalink)
giogolf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 118	I have a 12ay7 in V1, 12ax7 in V2, and to 6L6, all Nos. My deluxe is putting out double the power most kits are. However, the circuit is identical to a late 50's 5e3. You could mic the clean, but I think at such a low volume you wouldn't be getting any real tone out of it. Again this is my opinion, and I am new 5e3 user.

May 8th, 2008, 10:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
giogolf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 118	The only thing a DR and 5e3 have in common is they both have Deluxe in their names. The cleans are not comparable at all. The 5e3 is an overdrive monster in my opinion.

May 8th, 2008, 10:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
giogolf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 118	If you are going to use a OD pedal and want a real nice clean tone get a Princeton. If you want a bit more power get a DR. Either of those amps with a Tube Screamer will do the trick.

May 8th, 2008, 10:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
giogolf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 118	Also, if you are looking into the 5e3, the volume knob's are very different than what you maybe used to. From 0-2 you get a gradual increase with a decent clean tone, but once you go to 3 the volume jumps with overdriven tones, and it is no longer a bedroom amp.

May 8th, 2008, 12:24 PM	#17 (permalink)
giogolf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 118	Ok, so on topic: JTM 45/Bassman will yield a cleaner tones with more headroom than a 5e3.

May 8th, 2008, 04:16 PM	#20 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NE CR IA US NA PE Posts: 909	Don't forget an 18-watt! - Scott

May 8th, 2008, 04:19 PM	#21 (permalink)
chabby Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 928	Not underrated to me - I've always loved Marshall cleans. STill, the best clean I've ever heard is my Bogner Shiva which is an EL34 80 watt amp. I tried to post a sample of it, but this site doesn't accept mp3's apparently.

May 8th, 2008, 09:34 PM	#25 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 6,570 39 Photos	It's like comparing an early low power tweed with a late high power tweed Bassman (with a warmer midrange). Cleans? Go with the JTM45. If you have an attenuator the JTM45 can cover it all. Angus Young uses a JTM45 often for solos... but at that volume you're neighbors will kill you.