vibr champ help

ce24 · May 2nd, 2008, 06:05 PM

I got my kit today from the triode store...this will be challenging. I only have the "fender layout" and that is hard to read. the three orange drop caps I got are three diff sizes??

I don't know what value they are they are all 715p 600v but no uf designation one is an 0803 one is an 0717 and one is a 0747. I think I can figure out the other caps.also .but does anybody know of a better layout picture for the original fender layout as the board with this kit is a very good board but it is configured just like the fender layout so ceriatone's doesn't help completely..

Thanks in advance...I'm gonna learn a lot on this one

CE24

ce24 · May 2nd, 2008, 07:01 PM

Ok I figured out the orange drops but I think I might be missing some parts..that would be the three 22uf 450 volt caps. boy that fender layout is horrible it's damn near worthless... any help on a layout that is readable that is also the same as the fender would really help. I think I'm seeing a huge difference in fenders layout and ceriatone's ie not the same at all..

Thanks

CE24

ce24 · May 2nd, 2008, 07:17 PM

I'm going to rename this the "evolution of an idiot amp builder" I now see that I have a filter can that houses the three caps that I thought were missing all in one unit as per the fender layout....keep watching those of you who might be intimidated by buiilding an amp...I will keep posting my revelations as I go. in the end I will have learned a bunch and ended up with a really good amp.

Cheers
ce 24

BTW I could still use a better layout that's not so blurry....

milocj · May 2nd, 2008, 07:19 PM

I was just getting ready to type that you should have a cap can but you figured it out.

Are you getting your layouts from Schematicheaven.com? You may want to look at the Bronco schematic/layout as it should be the same as a VC.

ce24 · May 2nd, 2008, 09:25 PM

Thanks milocj.. the schematics heaven layout copy is better plus having the schematic with the layout will help me understand how they relate. I really appreciate it..now a question on the cap can. there are 4 connections and each has a symbol next to it...one has a triangle one has a square and one has a "D" shape and one has nothing, are these critical? I can't imagine it not being critical as to the hookup of these but I better not assume anything.

Cheers
ce24

after looking at ceriatones layout I do see that it is very close and will be able to use it for most of the project but I will post some questions as I move along..I've seen a few minor differences.

Cheers
ce24

milocj · May 2nd, 2008, 10:49 PM

As far as I know the symbols aren't critical as long as the values of each section of the cap can are the same. On the Bronco it looks like the first section of the can is 40uf whereas the others are 20uf so in that case you would want to verify that your can matched.

It still wouldn't hurt to stick with the way it's shown just to help keep track of which lead is going where on the schematic.

ce24 · May 3rd, 2008, 01:14 PM

The only 470k ohm is on V2 crossing pins 1 to 6 .layout syas nothing about 5w. the resistor has no banding to tell what value it is, it has printed on it "ohmite" it's bigger than a normal resistor it shows 470k ohms printed on it.
help please???

Thanks
Ce24

JohnnyCrash · May 3rd, 2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ce24

The only 470k ohm is on V2 crossing pins 1 to 6 .layout syas nothing about 5w. the resistor has no banding to tell what value it is, it has printed on it "ohmite" it's bigger than a normal resistor it shows 470k ohms printed on it.
help please???

Thanks
Ce24

Is it blue? If so, it is likely a 1, 2, or 3 watt metal oxide resistor. 5 watts will be overkill for that V2, SO...

You will need a 5 or 10 watt white ceramic (box style) cathode resistor for that 6V6, but that is 470 OHMS not 470k.

Be sure to lookout for that "k" to be sure this one is not your 470ohm cathode resistor...

ce24 · May 3rd, 2008, 03:05 PM

ooops bad on me, this unknown resistor is brown and is a 5w 470 ohm, it's almost twice as long as all the other resistors..I see a 470k on the 12ax7 pin 1 to 6 on the schematic...methinks my ignorance is confusing the matter. Thanks for the reply Johnny crash.....this is my bottle neck at the moment once I get this I'll be ok for a bit....I've just about got the board populated.
here is a pic of what I've got done so far and the wierd resistor next to it

ce24 · May 3rd, 2008, 03:29 PM

I think I found the 470 spot on the schematic...going from left to rt it is attached along side the first 25uf-25vdc cap but the schematic calls for a 1 watt 470 will this 5w 470 screw things up?

Thanks

CE24

JohnnyCrash · May 3rd, 2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ce24

I think I found the 470 spot on the schematic...going from left to rt it is attached along side the first 25uf-25vdc cap but the schematic calls for a 1 watt 470 will this 5w 470 screw things up?

Thanks

CE24

OK, these are TWO different values.

The smaller wattage 470 K can just go on the actual V2 tube socket (the 12AX7 socket).

The larger 470 ohm is your 6V6's cathode resistor as you mentioned and is in parallel with the 25uF bypass cap.

1w - 10w is fine for the 6V6's cathode resistor, but it shouldn't be any lower. The old schem shows this as a 1 watt, but guys today generally use 5 watt. It won't hurt it, but going with a lower watt than 1w may be very bad :)

The 470 K is a normal 1/4 to 1/2 watt, just like the rest on the board.

Again, be sure to differentiate between K and regular ohms.

ce24 · May 3rd, 2008, 03:51 PM

Thanks a bunch Johnnycrash that's all I need to know for now....I know I didn't make it clear but I am aware of the k value being 1000 but I really appreciate you making sure I understood that...all the help here is invaluable......

Cheers
ce24

ce24 · May 11th, 2008, 11:34 AM

I'm now installing the Power transformer that came with my kit from Triode electronics. There is a mismatch between the vibrochamp layout PT wire colors and the 5f2PTS transformer that came with the kit. I cannot discern how to transpose the differences. I looked at a layout from the princeton and the colors match that PT. problems like ie: red-yellow and green to ground on the VC, on the princeton they are red-yellow red green to ground. on the vc layout it calls for 250 v red wire where on the 5f2pts i only see 650 volts red wire. I nedd serious help here...all has gone well so far but I'm stumped now and I know its a very simple solution for those in the know which I am not.

Thanks for any help

Cheers
ce24

ce24 · May 11th, 2008, 06:00 PM

this should make it a little clearer...how the ot wires don't jibe..

Thanks

Ce24

ce24 · May 11th, 2008, 06:04 PM

and again....the PT

Cheers
ce24

ce24 · May 11th, 2008, 06:12 PM

I'm having a tough time getting the images to take..#3..

Cheers
ce24

JohnnyCrash · May 11th, 2008, 06:45 PM

I believe you trim and tape-off the Red-Black. Red-Yellow should be your high voltage center tap, so you'd ground that.

Orange is your PT shield, so that also goes to ground (to reduce noise).

Green-Yellow is your tube heaters' center tap. Ground that to reduce AC hum noise from heaters.

Yellow is your rectifier's 5 volt heater filaments.

JohnnyCrash · May 11th, 2008, 06:54 PM

OK, read your post a bit more...

Do not ground either of the Greens. Ground the Green-Yellow ONLY. The two greens go to all of your tube heaters (not to your rectifier though) and Green-Yellow is your center tap. The old ones did not follow this scheme.

The 650v is a total voltage. Split it per Red wire and you'll see 325v, once rectified it'll be 325 DC (usually a little bit higher, give or take - depending on rectifier).

As far as the OT:
Red is usually always your voltage feed. Black is ground. Blue or Brown is generally to the 6V6, and the other one is likely your speaker jack 3.2 or 4 ohm output connection.

What colors does your OT have on it? Does it have a diagram or anything? What model # is it? Maybe I can look it up online and find out what colors are for what.

ce24 · May 11th, 2008, 07:26 PM

Thanks for the reply JC..I'm getting there...here is the info on the OT. I think I can get started agin thanks to your help on this...Many thanks...

OT= Grn/yell/blk on one side and Red/Blu/white on the other side.

The OT is a TF103-48ulh made in USA 0801. Triode Electronics sheet says its a bolt on replacement for Fender Champs.

Primary
power -red
plate blue

secondary
8 ohms grn
4 ohms yellow
ground-black

so if I have 2 spkr jacks I go black to grnd on both jacks and green to + on one and yellow to + on the other so I can go either 4 or 8 ohms load?

Cheers
ce24

JohnnyCrash · May 11th, 2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ce24

OT= Grn/yell/blk on one side and Red/Blu/white on the other side.

The OT is a TF103-48ulh made in USA 0801. Triode Electronics sheet says its a bolt on replacement for Fender Champs.

Primary
power -red
plate blue

secondary
8 ohms grn
4 ohms yellow
ground-black

so if I have 2 spkr jacks I go black to grnd on both jacks and green to + on one and yellow to + on the other so I can go either 4 or 8 ohms load?

Cheers
ce24

Green (8 ohms), Yellow (4 ohms), and Black (ground) are your secondaries and ground (black). If you want an 8 ohm speaker, cut the yellow's bare end and tape it off, then use the Green on the output jack.

Black is ground. Wherever you put it doesn't matter a whole lot... as long as it's grounded.

Red is your primary high voltage (to the board, first filter cap and off of the rectifier). Blue goes to your 6V6's pin #3.

Have no clue what white is.

JohnnyCrash · May 11th, 2008, 10:56 PM

Oh, never cut any unused tranny wires. You may need the tranny a few years later and need that "unused" wire. Just cut the portion that is bare and tap it so it won't short out to ground via the chassis.

ce24 · May 11th, 2008, 11:41 PM

Great Info JC!! I'm on my way again..I'll post some pics this week of the finished chassis. Thanks a

bunch

Cheers
ce24

ce24 · May 12th, 2008, 08:17 PM

HEATER WIRES: the Fender layout shows only 1 heater wire to the 6V6 and the 12 AX7's....The ceriatones layout shows heater wires on 2 pins of the same 3 tubes can I go with the 2 heater wires a la ceriatone?

Thanks
ce 24

ce24 · May 13th, 2008, 07:52 AM

HEATER WIRES: the Fender layout shows only 1 heater wire to the 6V6 and the 12 AX7's....The ceriatones layout shows heater wires on 2 pins of the same 3 tubes can I go with the 2 heater wires a la ceriatone?

Thanks
ce 24

May 2nd, 2008, 06:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	vibr champ help I got my kit today from the triode store...this will be challenging. I only have the "fender layout" and that is hard to read. the three orange drop caps I got are three diff sizes?? I don't know what value they are they are all 715p 600v but no uf designation one is an 0803 one is an 0717 and one is a 0747. I think I can figure out the other caps.also .but does anybody know of a better layout picture for the original fender layout as the board with this kit is a very good board but it is configured just like the fender layout so ceriatone's doesn't help completely.. Thanks in advance...I'm gonna learn a lot on this one CE24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 2nd, 2008, 07:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	Ok I figured out the orange drops but I think I might be missing some parts..that would be the three 22uf 450 volt caps. boy that fender layout is horrible it's damn near worthless... any help on a layout that is readable that is also the same as the fender would really help. I think I'm seeing a huge difference in fenders layout and ceriatone's ie not the same at all.. Thanks CE24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 2nd, 2008, 07:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	I'm going to rename this the "evolution of an idiot amp builder" I now see that I have a filter can that houses the three caps that I thought were missing all in one unit as per the fender layout....keep watching those of you who might be intimidated by buiilding an amp...I will keep posting my revelations as I go. in the end I will have learned a bunch and ended up with a really good amp. Cheers ce 24 BTW I could still use a better layout that's not so blurry.... __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 2nd, 2008, 09:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	Thanks milocj.. the schematics heaven layout copy is better plus having the schematic with the layout will help me understand how they relate. I really appreciate it..now a question on the cap can. there are 4 connections and each has a symbol next to it...one has a triangle one has a square and one has a "D" shape and one has nothing, are these critical? I can't imagine it not being critical as to the hookup of these but I better not assume anything. Cheers ce24 after looking at ceriatones layout I do see that it is very close and will be able to use it for most of the project but I will post some questions as I move along..I've seen a few minor differences. Cheers ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same" Last edited by ce24 : May 2nd, 2008 at 10:23 PM.

May 3rd, 2008, 01:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	470K 5w The only 470k ohm is on V2 crossing pins 1 to 6 .layout syas nothing about 5w. the resistor has no banding to tell what value it is, it has printed on it "ohmite" it's bigger than a normal resistor it shows 470k ohms printed on it. help please??? Thanks Ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 2nd, 2008, 07:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
milocj Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 238 3 Photos	I was just getting ready to type that you should have a cap can but you figured it out. Are you getting your layouts from Schematicheaven.com? You may want to look at the Bronco schematic/layout as it should be the same as a VC.

May 2nd, 2008, 10:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
milocj Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 238 3 Photos	As far as I know the symbols aren't critical as long as the values of each section of the cap can are the same. On the Bronco it looks like the first section of the can is 40uf whereas the others are 20uf so in that case you would want to verify that your can matched. It still wouldn't hurt to stick with the way it's shown just to help keep track of which lead is going where on the schematic.

May 3rd, 2008, 03:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	I think I found the 470 spot on the schematic...going from left to rt it is attached along side the first 25uf-25vdc cap but the schematic calls for a 1 watt 470 will this 5w 470 screw things up? Thanks CE24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 3rd, 2008, 03:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	Thanks a bunch Johnnycrash that's all I need to know for now....I know I didn't make it clear but I am aware of the k value being 1000 but I really appreciate you making sure I understood that...all the help here is invaluable...... Cheers ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 11th, 2008, 11:34 AM	#13 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	I'm now installing the Power transformer that came with my kit from Triode electronics. There is a mismatch between the vibrochamp layout PT wire colors and the 5f2PTS transformer that came with the kit. I cannot discern how to transpose the differences. I looked at a layout from the princeton and the colors match that PT. problems like ie: red-yellow and green to ground on the VC, on the princeton they are red-yellow red green to ground. on the vc layout it calls for 250 v red wire where on the 5f2pts i only see 650 volts red wire. I nedd serious help here...all has gone well so far but I'm stumped now and I know its a very simple solution for those in the know which I am not. Thanks for any help Cheers ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 11th, 2008, 06:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	and again....the PT Cheers ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 11th, 2008, 06:45 PM	#17 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,083 39 Photos	I believe you trim and tape-off the Red-Black. Red-Yellow should be your high voltage center tap, so you'd ground that. Orange is your PT shield, so that also goes to ground (to reduce noise). Green-Yellow is your tube heaters' center tap. Ground that to reduce AC hum noise from heaters. Yellow is your rectifier's 5 volt heater filaments.

May 11th, 2008, 06:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,083 39 Photos	OK, read your post a bit more... Do not ground either of the Greens. Ground the Green-Yellow ONLY. The two greens go to all of your tube heaters (not to your rectifier though) and Green-Yellow is your center tap. The old ones did not follow this scheme. The 650v is a total voltage. Split it per Red wire and you'll see 325v, once rectified it'll be 325 DC (usually a little bit higher, give or take - depending on rectifier). As far as the OT: Red is usually always your voltage feed. Black is ground. Blue or Brown is generally to the 6V6, and the other one is likely your speaker jack 3.2 or 4 ohm output connection. What colors does your OT have on it? Does it have a diagram or anything? What model # is it? Maybe I can look it up online and find out what colors are for what.

May 11th, 2008, 07:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	Thanks for the reply JC..I'm getting there...here is the info on the OT. I think I can get started agin thanks to your help on this...Many thanks... OT= Grn/yell/blk on one side and Red/Blu/white on the other side. The OT is a TF103-48ulh made in USA 0801. Triode Electronics sheet says its a bolt on replacement for Fender Champs. Primary power -red plate blue secondary 8 ohms grn 4 ohms yellow ground-black so if I have 2 spkr jacks I go black to grnd on both jacks and green to + on one and yellow to + on the other so I can go either 4 or 8 ohms load? Cheers ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 11th, 2008, 10:56 PM	#21 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,083 39 Photos	Oh, never cut any unused tranny wires. You may need the tranny a few years later and need that "unused" wire. Just cut the portion that is bare and tap it so it won't short out to ground via the chassis.

May 11th, 2008, 11:41 PM	#22 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	Great Info JC!! I'm on my way again..I'll post some pics this week of the finished chassis. Thanks a bunch Cheers ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 12th, 2008, 08:17 PM	#23 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	HEATER WIRES: the Fender layout shows only 1 heater wire to the 6V6 and the 12 AX7's....The ceriatones layout shows heater wires on 2 pins of the same 3 tubes can I go with the 2 heater wires a la ceriatone? Thanks ce 24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

May 13th, 2008, 07:52 AM	#24 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 317	HEATER WIRES: the Fender layout shows only 1 heater wire to the 6V6 and the 12 AX7's....The ceriatones layout shows heater wires on 2 pins of the same 3 tubes can I go with the 2 heater wires a la ceriatone? Thanks ce 24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"