Deluxe Reverb dilemna - 22 watts enough?

pgrace245 · April 18th, 2008, 09:26 AM

I'm going to be buying my first quality tube amp and want to get the most for my money. I like the 1x12 DR but am turned off by it's 22 watts. Would that make it weaker than the Peavey classic 30? I'm also thinking about getting a 70's Twin Reverb. Probably too much amp for my mainly home playing but if I need louder amp for live playing then I would want enough amp. I suppose I could mic the 1X12 DR. I really want a Fender for the Fender sound. Any thoughts?

Durtdog · April 18th, 2008, 09:34 AM

Strictly my opinion....get the Deluxe Reverb. I assume you're talking about a silver face rather than the reissue.

It'd be a great amp for home and if/when the opportunity comes along to play out, you may find that it does the job for you. If you're not happy after a couple of gigs, get something else. But it would be a lifetime amp. Most guys will chime in here and say it's got enough power for just about any gig.

If you're talking about a reissue DR, I say get the '70s Twin.

Leon Grizzard · April 18th, 2008, 09:47 AM

Paul - I don't know if you caught this recent thread:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-centr...-reverb-2.html

markw51 · April 18th, 2008, 09:50 AM

There is no discernable difference between 22 and 30 watts.
Doubling the power makes only a 3 db increase in sound level and that is barely perceptable.

A 22 watt tube amp is loud. Even a 15 watt tube amp is pretty loud. Heck a 5 watt tube amplifier can be loud.

giogolf · April 18th, 2008, 09:59 AM

I have a 68 SF Twin, 72 SF Princeton, and Blues Jr. First the Twin is way to friggin loud, the only way it leaves the house is if I am playing outdoors un mic'ed. I mainly play the Princeton and at 12-15 watts this baby twin is loud enough for rehersal, and perfect for gig which are mic'ed. The twin does'nt get used anymore, becasue I can't even turn it on with out getting yelled at.

If you are going to play the amp 75% of the time in doors, I would get a Princeton, because the deluxe will be to friggin loud in the house.

Teleglide · April 18th, 2008, 10:20 AM

I use a BF Deluxe Reverb most the time in a fairly aggressive funk/rock/blues band. It usually has plenty of volume to keep up, unless we are outdoors or in a big venue with a horn section. When we do those gigs I use a SF Bassman head and a 1x12 cab.

My DR has an efficient speaker, which helps a lot. There are a number of good choices, including the Weber 12F150. Some folks like a Celestion Vintage 30 or an EVM12L - both pretty loud. I use an Altec 417 8C, and my DR is louder than any Classic 30 I've encountered.

Unless you want a big loud clean sound, I'd get the DR and upgrade the speaker.

As always, YMMV.

Axis29 · April 18th, 2008, 10:27 AM

I use a DR REISSUE for everything. playing at home, playing live at clubs and playing outside for small venues (nobody wants to listen to me in any big venues and louder than I already play!!! LOL)

Seriously, my DRRI is not that much quieter than my old Mesa Mark IV was and it was rated at 85 Watts just like a twin.

The twin is nice, but it's friggin heavy and you will need to get it above 3 to start really letting the tubes breath and get decent tone. Under that it sounds a little weak and tinny to me.

I've played through a twin a few times with the band and they got mad at me every time! They love my DRRI however. IT cuts through the mix without muddying up anything and it's a fire breathing monster opened up about 8 or so. Most of the time when I gig (with a live drummer) I ma sitting on 4 or 5 on the volume knob and 7 -8 on the guitar's volume knob. I crank up the guitar for leads and all is well with the world.

Axis29 · April 18th, 2008, 10:28 AM

Oh yeah, that 22 Watts is before distortion. That means more room afterwards...

Telenator · April 18th, 2008, 10:32 AM

If you can't hear a Deluxe Reverb with a band, the band is playing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too loud!

I have gigged with a Deluxe reverb for years and it has always come through. Whenever it got so loud that I couldn't hear it, I just went home.

vjf1968 · April 18th, 2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgrace245

I'm going to be buying my first quality tube amp and want to get the most for my money. I like the 1x12 DR but am turned off by it's 22 watts. Would that make it weaker than the Peavey classic 30? I'm also thinking about getting a 70's Twin Reverb. Probably too much amp for my mainly home playing but if I need louder amp for live playing then I would want enough amp. I suppose I could mic the 1X12 DR. I really want a Fender for the Fender sound. Any thoughts?

Ditto on the DRRI. 22 watts is enough in this modern age. There is really no reason to use a Twin or any other powerful amp in clubs since it's going to be mic'd anyway. Even if it wasn't mic'd it will still be plenty. Plus it's a little over 40 pounds so it isn't going to break your back like a TR.

So in summation:
DRRI is a great amp.
If you need more than 22 watts you arer either going deaf or like being yelled at.

IronJoe · April 18th, 2008, 10:44 AM

The DRRI stays clean for a lot longer than you would expect. Especially true when playing a single coil guitar through it. You won't have to worry about being underpowered.

The problem I have with the DRRI is the price. A couple years ago they were priced at $800 (and could be had for even less). Now they are $950 and I don't consider that a very good pricepoint for this amp. Once you get into the $1K ballpark, I think there are some better built, better sounding amps out there.

So if you're thinking about spending $950 on a new reissue vs $700 on a SFTR... you'll get more for your $$ from the Twin.

Durtdog · April 18th, 2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vjf1968

There is really no reason to use a Twin or any other powerful amp in clubs since it's going to be mic'd anyway.

So in summation:
DRRI is a great amp.
If you need more than 22 watts you arer either going deaf or like being yelled at.

Well, I have to disagree with you there. I'm glad it works for you as it does for many players, but just because it suits your needs, doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.

In my post above, I recommended the DR, but I use a Twin. I want big and clean, and I want the sound of 2 speakers. I can assure you I nor anyone I play with is going deaf nor getting yelled at.

The Deluxe is a great amp, but I prefer the sound of a Twin, thank you.

pgrace245 · April 18th, 2008, 11:33 AM

Wow... alot of great responses. It looks like most of you point toward the DRRI. I'm debating between the 1x12 DRRI and the Twin. I heard Luther Perkins used a Deluxe Reverb most of the time so they gotta be pretty durn good. How does the reissues compare with the original Deluxe Reverbs? Do most of you recommend a speaker change?

surfoverb · April 18th, 2008, 11:46 AM

Check out the Vibrolux Reverb...It's sort of the best of both Worlds: 40W, 2X10", 46LBS(the best part)

bradpdx · April 18th, 2008, 01:14 PM

I have used a BFDR at literally thousands of gigs since the mid-80s. I occasionally used a bigger rig, but always regretted it and went back to the DR.

22 watts with a good speaker is really quite enough unless your band is just too darn loud. I use a JBL, but if I had to replace it there are plenty of great high-efficiency alternatives.

hal · April 18th, 2008, 01:18 PM

If you had to ask 100 members what is the perfect or best all round gig amp, I would say the Deluxe will get more votes than any other amp. Maybe we should do this a one of the forum polls.

chabby · April 18th, 2008, 01:37 PM

As a former owner, they are plenty loud enough for your needs. Heck, even 15 watts would prolly do it. I don't know about the no discernable difference between 22 and 30 whats thing though. I traded my DRRI for a 30 watt EL84 combo that is way louder than my DRRI was.

ASAT-Sean · April 18th, 2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgrace245

I'm going to be buying my first quality tube amp and want to get the most for my money. I like the 1x12 DR but am turned off by it's 22 watts. Would that make it weaker than the Peavey classic 30? I'm also thinking about getting a 70's Twin Reverb. Probably too much amp for my mainly home playing but if I need louder amp for live playing then I would want enough amp. I suppose I could mic the 1X12 DR. I really want a Fender for the Fender sound. Any thoughts?

22 Watts is plenty for most places. If you're playing outside, mic it. Otherwise, CRANK IT UP!

vjf1968 · April 18th, 2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durtdog

Well, I have to disagree with you there. I'm glad it works for you as it does for many players, but just because it suits your needs, doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.

In my post above, I recommended the DR, but I use a Twin. I want big and clean, and I want the sound of 2 speakers. I can assure you I nor anyone I play with is going deaf nor getting yelled at.

The Deluxe is a great amp, but I prefer the sound of a Twin, thank you.

Actually I have 2 twins a 65RI and a mid-70's SFTR. I love the sound of both but for gigging it was just too much power hence the DRRI. I done gigs with bands that would bring in HiWatt and Marshall stacks in small rooms and literally have people running for the exit as soon as they played. These days you really do not need that much power and that was the point I was trying to make. I understand what your saying about a 2 X 12 cabinet and it really is a matter of preference but for the paramenters he put forth I would think a DRRI or Surfoverb's suggestion of the Vibrolux RI would be good chose if he wants the "Fender" sound. Of course there are always options.

sax4blues · April 18th, 2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgrace245

I'm going to be buying my first quality tube amp and want to get the most for my money. Probably too much amp for my mainly home playing but if I need louder amp for live playing then I would want enough amp. I suppose I could mic the 1X12 DR.

The band playing aspect is a little vauge here. Do you plan to play regularly in an active band that plays gigs every month? Then slant toward a gigging amp.

But if you are not in a band, or like me you jam with people but only play out two times a year, don't worry about a gig amp. Get the amp that is at it's best where you spend 95% of your playing, at home or in a band practice/jam situation (which should not require club levels of volume).

blacklove · April 18th, 2008, 02:30 PM

It all depends on the room and the drummer, really. I recently played a power-chord heavy jam with a drummer buddy in his new rehearsal space and brought my DRRI along. The room's ceiling sloped up and away from his kit, creating an amphitheater effect. He is an almost Bonham-like hitter and in this room, his drums sounded immense. When he got rolling, I turned the amp up to ten and it didn't even make a dent. It didn't help that it was sitting on the floor. So much for that.

I've played with the same guy on the same kit in a small sound-deadened basement and put the volume on 4/5 and it was plenty loud.

I was in a country band, doing the Luther Perkins thing mostly, and I'd barely have it nudged above its lowest audibility--even at unmiked gigs!

On mine, sound doesn't actually come out of the thing until you get it up over 2, then it kinda leaps out if you're not careful!

3/4 is still pretty clean, but actual "loudness" peaks out around 5/6. Turn it up beyond that and you're turning up a nice compressed overdrive. Granted, I've had the stock tubes replaced and re-biased so it's not so cold-sounding as it was originally.

I've never played through a Twin, but from what I understand, it stays clean and just gets louder and louder.

Good luck!

pgrace245 · April 18th, 2008, 02:42 PM

OK I decided on the 1X12 Deluxe reverb. I really appreciate the feedback and advice. You probably saved me the hassle of buying and twin and downsizing to the DRRI. I keep hearing about changing speakers.....what's the cadillac of 12" speakers for a DRRI?

Brad Miller · April 18th, 2008, 02:46 PM

its enough

jefrs · April 18th, 2008, 02:50 PM

Go for the sound you like, not the wattage

A 1500 watt amp is only four times as loud as a 15 watt amp. You won't hear much difference between 22W and 30W, both will handle small gigs, other musicians and drummers w/o PA.

mad dog · April 18th, 2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefrs

Go for the sound you like, not the wattage.

Excellent advice. I've had lots of amps, including a really sweet BFDR. Ultimately, it didn't work for me. Had I known back then what I know now (about my own preferences and requirements), I'd own a pro reverb.

April 18th, 2008, 09:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
pgrace245 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 244	Deluxe Reverb dilemna - 22 watts enough? I'm going to be buying my first quality tube amp and want to get the most for my money. I like the 1x12 DR but am turned off by it's 22 watts. Would that make it weaker than the Peavey classic 30? I'm also thinking about getting a 70's Twin Reverb. Probably too much amp for my mainly home playing but if I need louder amp for live playing then I would want enough amp. I suppose I could mic the 1X12 DR. I really want a Fender for the Fender sound. Any thoughts?

April 18th, 2008, 10:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
Axis29 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 40 Posts: 1,043 1 Photos	I use a DR REISSUE for everything. playing at home, playing live at clubs and playing outside for small venues (nobody wants to listen to me in any big venues and louder than I already play!!! LOL) Seriously, my DRRI is not that much quieter than my old Mesa Mark IV was and it was rated at 85 Watts just like a twin. The twin is nice, but it's friggin heavy and you will need to get it above 3 to start really letting the tubes breath and get decent tone. Under that it sounds a little weak and tinny to me. I've played through a twin a few times with the band and they got mad at me every time! They love my DRRI however. IT cuts through the mix without muddying up anything and it's a fire breathing monster opened up about 8 or so. Most of the time when I gig (with a live drummer) I ma sitting on 4 or 5 on the volume knob and 7 -8 on the guitar's volume knob. I crank up the guitar for leads and all is well with the world. __________________ John F. TDPRI # 1764

April 18th, 2008, 10:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
Axis29 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 40 Posts: 1,043 1 Photos	Oh yeah, that 22 Watts is before distortion. That means more room afterwards... __________________ John F. TDPRI # 1764

April 18th, 2008, 10:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
Telenator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,341	If you can't hear a Deluxe Reverb with a band, the band is playing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too loud! I have gigged with a Deluxe reverb for years and it has always come through. Whenever it got so loud that I couldn't hear it, I just went home. __________________ Dogs have the right idea!

April 18th, 2008, 01:14 PM	#15 (permalink)
bradpdx Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Portland, OR Age: 50 Posts: 596	I have used a BFDR at literally thousands of gigs since the mid-80s. I occasionally used a bigger rig, but always regretted it and went back to the DR. 22 watts with a good speaker is really quite enough unless your band is just too darn loud. I use a JBL, but if I had to replace it there are plenty of great high-efficiency alternatives. __________________ ---------- Tech Geek and Sensitive Artiste String bender ordinare!

April 18th, 2008, 09:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Durtdog Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 3,050	Strictly my opinion....get the Deluxe Reverb. I assume you're talking about a silver face rather than the reissue. It'd be a great amp for home and if/when the opportunity comes along to play out, you may find that it does the job for you. If you're not happy after a couple of gigs, get something else. But it would be a lifetime amp. Most guys will chime in here and say it's got enough power for just about any gig. If you're talking about a reissue DR, I say get the '70s Twin.

April 18th, 2008, 09:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
Leon Grizzard Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 58 Posts: 1,074	Paul - I don't know if you caught this recent thread: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-centr...-reverb-2.html

April 18th, 2008, 09:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
markw51 Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: rockville, md. Posts: 263	There is no discernable difference between 22 and 30 watts. Doubling the power makes only a 3 db increase in sound level and that is barely perceptable. A 22 watt tube amp is loud. Even a 15 watt tube amp is pretty loud. Heck a 5 watt tube amplifier can be loud.

April 18th, 2008, 09:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
giogolf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 191	I have a 68 SF Twin, 72 SF Princeton, and Blues Jr. First the Twin is way to friggin loud, the only way it leaves the house is if I am playing outdoors un mic'ed. I mainly play the Princeton and at 12-15 watts this baby twin is loud enough for rehersal, and perfect for gig which are mic'ed. The twin does'nt get used anymore, becasue I can't even turn it on with out getting yelled at. If you are going to play the amp 75% of the time in doors, I would get a Princeton, because the deluxe will be to friggin loud in the house.

April 18th, 2008, 10:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
Teleglide TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vershire, VT Posts: 83	I use a BF Deluxe Reverb most the time in a fairly aggressive funk/rock/blues band. It usually has plenty of volume to keep up, unless we are outdoors or in a big venue with a horn section. When we do those gigs I use a SF Bassman head and a 1x12 cab. My DR has an efficient speaker, which helps a lot. There are a number of good choices, including the Weber 12F150. Some folks like a Celestion Vintage 30 or an EVM12L - both pretty loud. I use an Altec 417 8C, and my DR is louder than any Classic 30 I've encountered. Unless you want a big loud clean sound, I'd get the DR and upgrade the speaker. As always, YMMV.

April 18th, 2008, 10:44 AM	#11 (permalink)
IronJoe Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 33 Posts: 404	The DRRI stays clean for a lot longer than you would expect. Especially true when playing a single coil guitar through it. You won't have to worry about being underpowered. The problem I have with the DRRI is the price. A couple years ago they were priced at $800 (and could be had for even less). Now they are $950 and I don't consider that a very good pricepoint for this amp. Once you get into the $1K ballpark, I think there are some better built, better sounding amps out there. So if you're thinking about spending $950 on a new reissue vs $700 on a SFTR... you'll get more for your $$ from the Twin.

April 18th, 2008, 11:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
pgrace245 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 244	Wow... alot of great responses. It looks like most of you point toward the DRRI. I'm debating between the 1x12 DRRI and the Twin. I heard Luther Perkins used a Deluxe Reverb most of the time so they gotta be pretty durn good. How does the reissues compare with the original Deluxe Reverbs? Do most of you recommend a speaker change?

April 18th, 2008, 11:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
surfoverb Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,522	Check out the Vibrolux Reverb...It's sort of the best of both Worlds: 40W, 2X10", 46LBS(the best part)

April 18th, 2008, 01:18 PM	#16 (permalink)
hal Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 735	Deluxe... If you had to ask 100 members what is the perfect or best all round gig amp, I would say the Deluxe will get more votes than any other amp. Maybe we should do this a one of the forum polls. __________________ Wherever you go, there you are.

April 18th, 2008, 01:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
chabby Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,225	As a former owner, they are plenty loud enough for your needs. Heck, even 15 watts would prolly do it. I don't know about the no discernable difference between 22 and 30 whats thing though. I traded my DRRI for a 30 watt EL84 combo that is way louder than my DRRI was.

April 18th, 2008, 02:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
blacklove Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Small Pond Posts: 387 6 Photos	It all depends on the room and the drummer, really. I recently played a power-chord heavy jam with a drummer buddy in his new rehearsal space and brought my DRRI along. The room's ceiling sloped up and away from his kit, creating an amphitheater effect. He is an almost Bonham-like hitter and in this room, his drums sounded immense. When he got rolling, I turned the amp up to ten and it didn't even make a dent. It didn't help that it was sitting on the floor. So much for that. I've played with the same guy on the same kit in a small sound-deadened basement and put the volume on 4/5 and it was plenty loud. I was in a country band, doing the Luther Perkins thing mostly, and I'd barely have it nudged above its lowest audibility--even at unmiked gigs! On mine, sound doesn't actually come out of the thing until you get it up over 2, then it kinda leaps out if you're not careful! 3/4 is still pretty clean, but actual "loudness" peaks out around 5/6. Turn it up beyond that and you're turning up a nice compressed overdrive. Granted, I've had the stock tubes replaced and re-biased so it's not so cold-sounding as it was originally. I've never played through a Twin, but from what I understand, it stays clean and just gets louder and louder. Good luck!

April 18th, 2008, 02:42 PM	#22 (permalink)
pgrace245 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 244	OK I decided on the 1X12 Deluxe reverb. I really appreciate the feedback and advice. You probably saved me the hassle of buying and twin and downsizing to the DRRI. I keep hearing about changing speakers.....what's the cadillac of 12" speakers for a DRRI?

April 18th, 2008, 02:46 PM	#23 (permalink)
Brad Miller Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kokomo, Mississippi Age: 34 Posts: 612 8 Photos	its enough __________________ http://www.myspace.com/cbm1973

April 18th, 2008, 02:50 PM	#24 (permalink)
jefrs Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Newbury, England Age: 53 Posts: 369	Go for the sound you like, not the wattage A 1500 watt amp is only four times as loud as a 15 watt amp. You won't hear much difference between 22W and 30W, both will handle small gigs, other musicians and drummers w/o PA.