Deluxe Reverb dilemna - 22 watts enough?

[Twangmeister]

I buy the modern amps with volume controls on them. It works wonders.

Dude- don't you know? You're supposed to rewire your DR to bypass the volume, tone, reverb and trem controls for real tone! I hard solder my coil cord directly to the tranny!

[Dan German]

Originally Posted by Axis29

I really like the stock Jensen speaker in mine, though I've heard really good things about the Cannabis Rex. I've heard a lot of people dissing the stock Eminence that came in the earlier versions of these amps. Weber stuff always gets good grades. Depends on what you want in the way of tone...

Apples and oranges, I suppose, but in my PRII the Cannabis Rex was a big improvement over the stock (also Eminence) speaker.

[chabby]

I wish I had of been the first one to say; "go by the sound not the watts.
Hell, if I went by watts and weight, I would have never bought the best sounding amp I've ever heard because its way too much wattage and way too heavy! But its worth lugging around and sounds good at any volume.
80 watts of tonal nirvana.......

[pgrace245]

So I went with the Deluxe Reverb. Bought a like new DRRI for $640 shipped.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=012

So far it's pretty impressive and of course plenty loud :-)

[Wardpike]

I think you will find that a 22 watt amp puts out about closer to 44 watts when you have it cranked up (not too overly distorted) and that it will be much louder than a comparable 50 watt solid state amp.

I have used tube amps exclusively since 1983, and would never consider going back again. Presently I have 3 Voc AC30s, in addition to a Mesa 5/50 express and a Dr. Z Maz 38.

Even back in my hard rock days, I would use Sholtz R&D Power soaks on my AC30s because those 30/33 watt amps were much too loud...even with a crazy loud drummer and a bassist with a 200 watt amp.

The Mesa I keep set on the 5 watt setting and even live, I haven't cranked the master volume past "3".

I haven't tried the Dr.Z live yet, as it hasn't yet arrived at the dealership...so I don't have it in my possession yet. But I'm looking forward to making it my main gigging amp!

That and one AC30 should suffice, but that's for tone and stereo sound. Volume wise, both of those cranked up would blow the roof off most joints.

[bradpdx]

Saturday night the place was packed and the drummer was in a damn good mood. It just sounded huge all night long. In addition to our own stuff, we covered Clapton, Haggard, Dylan, Dire Straits, John Hiatt, Bonnie Raitt, Dead, Marty Robbins, Johnny Cash, Elvis Costello, Gram and Emmylou and of course Mickey and Sylvia.

So many fun, fun, fun guitar parts in there, and they are all mine.

The Deluxe Reverb got all the way up to 5, just washing over everything like a honey-dipped tsunami of reverb-ey goodness.

Yep, 22 watts will do fine.

[Robin Nahum]

Originally Posted by pgrace245

OK I decided on the 1X12 Deluxe reverb. I really appreciate the feedback and advice. You probably saved me the hassle of buying and twin and downsizing to the DRRI. I keep hearing about changing speakers.....what's the cadillac of 12" speakers for a DRRI?

My friend has just bought a new DRRI, which now comes with a Jensen speaker. It sounds pretty good as is but I see that you have picked up a DRRRI with a Weber 12F150 so that is no longer an issue.

But with the DRRI, a lot of people do change out the Groove Tube 6V6s as soon as possible as they are not always reliable. I have also heard it suggested that it is not a bad idea to swap out the stock rectifier tube.

I would suggest JJ 6V6s as they seem to offer best value. There is a wider range of choice for a replacement GZ34. There are innumerable threads on this topic.

You will need an amp tech to install the 6V6s as the amplifier will need to be rebiased. Not a big job. You can drop in pre-amp and rectifier tubes yourself.

[Axis29]

Originally Posted by Robin Nahum

You will need an amp tech to install the 6V6s as the amplifier will need to be rebiased. Not a big job. You can drop in pre-amp and rectifier tubes yourself.

If you are remotely comfortable plugging in a lamp, save the money for the tech. Buy a Weber Biasrite or similar tool and bias it yourself. You will have more flexibility in your sound AND be able to decide what the best bias for you and your tubes is.

[Ricky D.]

Originally Posted by Durtdog

Well, I have to disagree with you there. I'm glad it works for you as it does for many players, but just because it suits your needs, doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.

In my post above, I recommended the DR, but I use a Twin. I want big and clean, and I want the sound of 2 speakers. I can assure you I nor anyone I play with is going deaf nor getting yelled at.

The Deluxe is a great amp, but I prefer the sound of a Twin, thank you.

+1

Old school, Durtdog. Back in the day, most of the bands in town had 3/4/5 piece horn sections, guitar, keyboard, bass, drums. The twin reverb was the standard amp that just about everybody used. Nobody complained about the weight, just put casters on it. And for mid/late 60's soul and top 40, clean was it. Maybe singers in front.

Mikes were for the vocals, period. Maybe mike a horn solo. The mid-size Fenderslike Super Reverb and Bandmaster were just barely strong enough. A DR would never cut it there. But that was then and this is now...

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by Ricky D.

+1

Old school, Durtdog. Back in the day, most of the bands in town had 3/4/5 piece horn sections, guitar, keyboard, bass, drums. The twin reverb was the standard amp that just about everybody used. Nobody complained about the weight, just put casters on it. And for mid/late 60's soul and top 40, clean was it. Maybe singers in front.

Mikes were for the vocals, period. Maybe mike a horn solo. The mid-size Fenderslike Super Reverb and Bandmaster were just barely strong enough. A DR would never cut it there. But that was then and this is now...

Gotcha.
You guys have shown me the light. I don't want to be behind the times, so I'll sell my Twin this week and get a DRRI so I can be like everyone else. Then I too can show up with guitar in one hand, amp in the other and gripe about guys whose amps are too big.

Apparently there is only one way to do it.

[bradpdx]

Originally Posted by Ricky D.

+1

Old school, Durtdog. Back in the day, most of the bands in town had 3/4/5 piece horn sections, guitar, keyboard, bass, drums. The twin reverb was the standard amp that just about everybody used. Nobody complained about the weight, just put casters on it. And for mid/late 60's soul and top 40, clean was it. Maybe singers in front.

Mikes were for the vocals, period. Maybe mike a horn solo. The mid-size Fenderslike Super Reverb and Bandmaster were just barely strong enough. A DR would never cut it there. But that was then and this is now...

Depends upon what you are doing. I've been using DRs with JBLs since the mid 1980s, and often worked rockabilly, blues and country bands unmic'ed. At least in those settings it was just dandy.

You are correct that the TR was THE standard for many years, and many players felt it was a necessary amount of power. It was one of my first amps, too, and they sound great. However, in the 3 and 4 piece bands I was doing it just felt too big - I wanted a bit of dirt (not much) and so went down the wattage scale until I landed upon the DR.

IMHO the speakers are a bigger factor than wattage in many settings. Jensens and the like just could not compete with the efficiency of an EVM or JBL when trying to get the most oomph from a small amp.

[surfoverb]

Originally Posted by Durtdog

Gotcha.
You guys have shown me the light. I don't want to be behind the times, so I'll sell my Twin this week and get a DRRI so I can be like everyone else. Then I too can show up with guitar in one hand, amp in the other and gripe about guys whose amps are too big.

Apparently there is only one way to do it.

I'll buy your twin.

[Jerry J]

Originally Posted by surfoverb

Check out the Vibrolux Reverb...It's sort of the best of both Worlds: 40W, 2X10", 46LBS(the best part)

+1 Have one and this might be a better (cheaper) alternative to the DR. It's cleaner too but not as much as a TR.

[Wardpike]

Anyone have a Vibrolux reverb for sale? :-)

[stantheman]

Phish played around here for years to some seriously HUGE outdoor gatherin's
long before they got Framus'd and Trey always had them two Deluxe Reverbs.
That's his sound - whenever I put on some Phish that's the Tone I'm craving.
It's one of the all-time Tones.
It's one you don't sell.
If they had had Deluxe Reverbs in Tut's time there woulda been half a dozen stashed in his pyramid - in back of the poison dart thrower.
....for those of You out there that really wanna crap your drawers take one of them Boss Deluxe Reverb Pedals and stick it in front of a Solid State Bass Amp Rig with eight 10's
With a Tele it translates out to "The Joy Of Stax".
"Funky Broadway" in a Hemi Cuda with a nitrous kit.

[Axis29]

Originally Posted by stantheman

Phish played around here for years to some seriously HUGE outdoor gatherin's
long before they got Framus'd and Trey always had them two Deluxe Reverbs.
That's his sound - whenever I put on some Phish that's the Tone I'm craving.
It's one of the all-time Tones.
It's one you don't sell.
If they had had Deluxe Reverbs in Tut's time there woulda been half a dozen stashed in his pyramid - in back of the poison dart thrower.
....for those of You out there that really wanna crap your drawers take one of them Boss Deluxe Reverb Pedals and stick it in front of a Solid State Bass Amp Rig with eight 10's
With a Tele it translates out to "The Joy Of Stax".
"Funky Broadway" in a Hemi Cuda with a nitrous kit.

Yeah, but what happens when you stick a DR pedal in front of a DR? Do they cancel each other out and you get silence?

[Ricky D.]

[QUOTE=bradpdx;1233623]Depends upon what you are doing. I've been using DRs with JBLs since the mid 1980s, and often worked rockabilly, blues and country bands unmic'ed. At least in those settings it was just dandy.

You are correct that the TR was THE standard for many years, and many players felt it was a necessary amount of power. It was one of my first amps, too, and they sound great. However, in the 3 and 4 piece bands I was doing it just felt too big - I wanted a bit of dirt (not much) and so went down the wattage scale until I landed upon the DR.

IMHO the speakers are a bigger factor than wattage in many settings. Jensens and the like just could not compete with the efficiency of an EVM or JBL when trying to get the most oomph from a small amp.[/quote]

Brad, I can't deny your point. Swap in a D120F for the stock speaker and you pick up a lot of efficiency, probably double the volume from the same wattage. Factor in the brightness of the JBL and your little DR is a lot louder than it used to be.

"Gotcha.
You guys have shown me the light. I don't want to be behind the times, so I'll sell my Twin this week and get a DRRI so I can be like everyone else. Then I too can show up with guitar in one hand, amp in the other and gripe about guys whose amps are too big.

Apparently there is only one way to do it."

Hey Durtdog-

I hope you don't think I'm disrespecting your choice of amps. Not my intent at all. Do it your way. The BF twin reverb is one of the greatest amps ever made. And it's not that heavy, it's just heavier than the small ones.

[tele_jas]

I gigged with a Fender Deluxe for 10 years with no problems. I think 22wts is plenty as long as you aren't needing a super tight, over the top, scooped out distortion to play heavy metal.... Even then, it'll sound *better* with the tube break up.

I even played hundreds of clubs in that time as well as in large arena's for 10,000+ people with my Deluxe.... No problems.

22wts = perfect gig amp!

I'm in the camp that thinks anything over 30wts is too much.

[stantheman]

Originally Posted by tele_jas

I gigged with a Fender Deluxe for 10 years with no problems. I think 22wts is plenty as long as you aren't needing a super tight, over the top, scooped out distortion to play heavy metal.... Even then, it'll sound *better* with the tube break up.

I even played hundreds of clubs in that time as well as in large arena's for 10,000+ people with my Deluxe.... No problems.

22wts = perfect gig amp!

I'm in the camp that thinks anything over 30wts is too much.

Yeah with a decent PA System one can get away with just about anything in regards to how much or how little power. BUT...there have been many times where I just want my Twin and Sparkle Drive and that's that.
Since my surgery in 2007 I've been on a steady weight lifting program and what used to be "a chore" is now basically effortless like when I was in my 20's.
Getting back into pumping iron for body conditioning is the smartest thing I've done, I could carry two Twins now - as long as it wasn't up 3 flights

[Scott S]

When you think about it, it's worse to carry a heavy load in one hand, and nothing in the other. If you can divide a 70-lb amp into a 40-lb cabinet and a 40-lb head (extra weight for the head cab), it becomes FAR easier to carry. Sort of like with heavy suitcases -- give me two if I'm going to carry any!

- Scott

[bradpdx]

For me the weight isn't a big issue - until the end of the night. Amps at 2AM are always about 50% heavier than they are at the beginning of the night...

No, for me it is just the wattage and where the amp breaks up nicely. Twins are great sounding amps, but by the time I have the little bit-o-grit that I crave it is just too overwhelming for me.

The Deluxe with a JBL is right about on the sweet spot for me - not too much, not too little. I used to have a Virbolux Reverb with Jensens that broke up at around the same level, and that too would be fine (if I still had it).

I do have gigs that are quieter, and right now I only have a Champ as an alternative - too little (but fun!). I have been offered a great deal on a DRRI and might pick that up to use with a non-JBL speaker as my "quiet" amp. I have no doubt that my JBL-loaded '65 DR would blow it out of the water for loudness.

[Dennis68]

I would agree with the sentiments about going with the DR. I'm sure you'll find it to be a very capable amp when compared to others with similar specs.