reissue fenders

[newbie]

how much different do the reissue fenders *really* sound than the originals?

[leewhit]

In some cases, a lot! The Deluxe sounds a lot more harsh on the highs and not as punchy as the good older ones.

[Lyle Caldwell]

They all need a rebias, the Eminence-equipped ones need new speakers, they all need new tubes, and some (DRRI and SRRI) need different caps so they don't take your head off. And they all need the input jacks replaced so the circuit boards don't crack.

In terms of sound, construction, and reliability, they're just about the same as Peavey. Which isn't a bad thing, but they aren't like the 50s/60s/early 70s Fenders, save cosmetically.

[newbie]

sounds like there's not much reason to buy one then, really. the "old" ones are pretty much bullet proof, and they are not relatively that expensive.

i've seen several drri's for sale around the $500 mark. by the time you have the rebias, rtube, etc done, that's gotta add $100.

if you don't mind shopping ebay, i know you can pick up nearly any silverface under $750, and some pretty nice blackface for that. there was a BF princeton reverb in the garage sale for $550 asking price.

just wondering what the consensus was. i guess i thought maybe since the re-issue guitars are considered by some to be better than the originals, that maybe the amps were pretty nice too.

[stantheman]

I have had access (thanks Brian and Happy Holidays!)
to EVERY generation and model of Fender Amp EVER
made and "In My Honest Opinion" NOTHING comes
close to the "real thing" (PTP Hand Wired). I myself
have a "Reissue '59" and a Genuine 1956 and to these
old worn out ears the difference, if I may use this analogy
is like comparing a big Harley Davidson to one of the
many "Hardly Davidsons", looks almost right, but when
you fire that puppy up you realize there's another reason
why there's full face helmuts....

[John E]

I think the reissues sound pretty good... the Super, the Deluxe and the bassman's I've tried anyway. I'd rather have an old one just because I know my amp guys could do whatever I needed to them. No amps sound completely alike to me, reissue or no... judge each one on it's own merits. That being said the Bassbreaker is one of my favorite all time amps... it's a Bassman ri with 2x12 Celestion V-30's instead of std 4x10. That amp KILLS.

[davetcan]

Anyone have any feedback good or bad. I have a chance at a used one but it's about an hours drive.

[stantheman]

on your Bassbreaker....did Fender retain the 4 speaker
inputs that they use on the "regular re-issue 4X10" ???
I bought this thing back in '91 after years of badgering
dealers and Fender's New England sales rep for "Tweed".
I've tried everything except changing the board out, that's next and last and if that doesn't work I'm turning
it into a "clock" for the top floor of the barn. Once you
"hear Tweed" you've heard "the funk". To me Tweed is
like a flavor of ice cream that you can only get for a short time in the Summer (native red raspberry comes
to mind), I believe that "straight in" with NO compromise
is the benchmark of a Tweed amplifier....I believe my
Reissue would be adequate with some pedals but that is
not why I desired this amp...it was to be played naked,
not masked. anyway on your Bassbreaker 2 or 4 speaker inputs?
thanks
stan

ps, kinda funny they didn't just call it a "Super", musta
been the Celestian 12's.

[John E]

Originally Posted by stantheman

on your Bassbreaker....did Fender retain the 4 speaker
inputs that they use on the "regular re-issue 4X10" ???

Not sure... didn't look at the back of it to well... it has a Normal and bright channel with 2 inputs for each. It has two 4ohm celestion vintage 30's in parallel running at 2ohms. The cab I think is a little different, but that's about all I know. It sounds way better to me than the Bassman ri. Let me know what you do!

[Nick Fanis]

an original 68 sf w/ JBL speakers and a stock 1998 RI (both TWIN REVERBS).
They are constructed differently but I can get them to sound exactly the same.
They both sound very good and very clean.
The sad fact is that my RIVERA QUIANA smokes both of them!

[Marky D.]

On the topic of the Bassbreaker: I'm thinking of adding a Hoffman board to my '59 RI. Would 2-12's fit in a 59 RI cab or is the BB cab modified to accomodate them?

[11 Gauge]

i took a DRRI and played thru it quite a bit.

then i gutted it - yanked the PCBs, replaced with a Hoffman board, good tubes, proper bias...

in the end the PTP converted DRRI did not sound that much different than in it's PCB trim. the reverb did sound a bit more deep than before, but besides that nothing really stuck out.

the stock speaker and trannies were retained, so maybe they needed to be replaced as well. the speaker has been replaced since then, but i haven't heard the amp in over a year, and couldn't be very objective about it at this point (i did the conversion for someone).

as far as actually a/b ing an oldie against an RI, i don't really see the point - too many differences.

probably a better test is to compare the Peaveys/Crates/Reverends/Fender PCBs etc. to each other, and see what sounds best to you.

and while the old stuff is a cynch to work on, there still are such issuses as worn out caps, worn out speakers, worn out trannies, or pieces of the whole that have been replaced with non-Fender stuff. you can spend a bit of money on this stuff too, and still have your amp go south on you.

best bet if you have to have something old is to have it thoroughly inspected before you pay for it. i've got an all original '65 Champ, but i'm forced to replace parts that i shouldn't have to, if it were properly maintained in the past 40 years. it wasn't, so now i'm looking at new trannies and such - while the amp will sound no doubt great when i'm done, it could lose quite a bit of the unique character it's acquired over the years too (most of the resistors have drifted in value so drastically that i will have to replace at least some of them).

at least the parts count is low on a Champ or Princeton - might be a good place for you to start...

[Oskar]

I've owned both the DR & TR and gigged with them extensively. Never had a single problem, and no every came up to me and told me my sound and tone was crap. The DR is still being used by one of the guitarists in my band. The TR was traded for a CVR which I've used for the past 3 years, again without a single problem. Are these amps as good as the originals? For the most part, of course not. Yes, I've heard people have had problems with the RIs, but I've also talked to people who have older/vintage fenders that are constantly in the shop. One final personal observation. Most of the older amps I've seen (I even owned a nice '68 TR) really were not the same amps. Once you change the caps, tubes, speakers, bias it, and change other electronics, etc. it is no longer the same amp it was in '65, '66, or whatever year. Remember that most people modify these older amps to get them to sound better. Nothing wrong with that it helps develop a standard for sound, but it's not the real thing. I think the reissues get a bad rap. They are good solid amps with good sound. A used one is certainly worth the money.

[11 Gauge]

ALOT of pros use these amps, including quite a few Nashville cats that are simply monster players.

These folks could probably play anything they want, but they choose the RIs.

This really says something. Maybe a RI doesn't sound just like the original, maybe it's got the 'wrong' speaker, 'wrong' caps, etc. but it is still more than good enough for a guitar player who knows the difference between good and bad tone, plays a ton of gigs, and has to have good sounding amps in the studio.

The Bassman RI is probably the most underestimated of them all - some folks defend them so dearly that they are brave enough to compare them to boutique tweed knockoffs!

I think sometimes we get so hung up on amp construction, deviation from original design, etc. that we forget to just plug in, turn the knobs 'til everything works, and play that guitar - not everybody needs Oxford or Jensen speakers, PTP wiring, cloth covered wire, NOS GE black plates, 'properly mounted' input jacks...

Don't get me wrong - I love the originals, but they require a sort of commitment. Some guitarists are just players and don't need that commitment getting in their way.

[JimS]

I read a while back that Johnny Hiland was using a pair of DRRIs, so, if it's good enough for a player like him...

[JimS]

I went to his website and it says he is using two 65' twin reissues. But still, they ARE the reissues!

[Tremo]

Who is Johnny Hiland?

Never heard of him.

[JimS]

He is a very very skilled up and coming picker. Got chops that equal the best of them.

[Tremo]

As in country music? Nashville and all that?

[JimS]

Uh, yeah.

[Paul B]

Hi

Interesting thread. I think the most important thing is to listen !

Concerning construction PTP system of the 60's is the most roadworthy. It is easy to fix and modify - period.

Artists may use reissues on the road. But what do they use in the studio is the real question ! How do we know that they are using stock reissue amps. These could be modified or totally gutted. We would never really know.

The answer is use on own ears and judgement and listen to tech's who work on these amps. One can save a lot hassles and money by doing this.

Regards

Paul

[JimS]

No one setup, whether it be amp, guitar, effects, etc. is correct for everyone. No amp sounds the same to every player, either. There is no fair way to compare the orignals to the reissues. As has been stated before, even the old amps are usually modified in some way to achieve the tone each player is looking for, so there really is no way to compare the two. As far as todays standards are concerned, the reissues are great. I think that all the horror stories of the PCB construction not being sturdy and roadworthy are greatly overstated. I know of two DRRI's in my area that are gigged regularly and hard, and have been for several years, and the owners have had no problems with them at all. That has to say something about the construction. It is all in the ears, as far as I am concerned.

[Nick Fanis]

My TRRI has toured the whole country non stop for the last 7 years with ABSOLUTELY no problems WITH the stock tubes (it belonged to a very good friend of mine who plays with Greece's most succesfull rock band,we are talking about 130 GIGS each year!!!)

My PV Classic 50 has also toured with me heavily under VERY bad conditions without failing me once...

My RIVERA QUIANA NEVER had a problem too.

On the other hand all my vintage Fenders and Marshalls neded serious GERIATRIC help.

IMNSHO the whole PTP vs PCB reliability and quality is total bs ,there are only good and bad amps!