Laney VC15-110 int+ext speaker together?

[telbert twang]

Hi

I am looking possibilities to have more juice in sound , if needed (am ´GAS´ing about Peavey classic 50 , but on the same time thinking improving a little my Laney´s oomph)

So, currently I have Laney vc15-110, which is a actually a very nice sounding little amp:
VC15 on Laney.co.uk ; VC15 specs ; VC 15 on Thomann.de

It has external speaker jack . Laney recommends the 12" GS112 to it:
GS112 on Laney.co.uk ; GS112 on Thomann.de


The thing which I dont like is, that joining the ext. cabinet would cut out the internal 10" .


Can anybody educate me whether it is possible to do a simple mod to get both these speakers "sing" with more loudness and tone, without ´cooking ´that VC15?

rgds,
tt

(VC 15-110 wiring)

[yelserpdog]

Hi TT,

I use a VC15 with an extension (not the Laney one). The difference is amazing I get a much bigger sound and louder.
I would definately try it a stock as I think you'll be suprised.

cheers
YD

[klast]

Sorry for being OT.

Can the VC15 provide good crunch at "home volume"?

I have a VC30 which provides nice crunch on the overdrive channel at gig volume, but at low volume it's lacking.

Klas

[telbert twang]

thanks for info, yelserpdog. What cab you use -112? open/closed back?

but wouldn´t it be cool to have combination of 1x10 + 1x12 , specially with the same design GS112 cabinet? So, the initial question is still on, if anybody would have some wisdom to share about it


tt




klast - the vc15´s drive (and also reverb) is amazing at low volumes IMO (for blues and rock and perhaps some earlier heavy sounds), i was surprised about it by myself as well.

[yelserpdog]

I use a closed back 112 custom made cab. I really prefer the sound with the extension so Haven't really thought about the speaker on the amp itself.
It would be interesting to see if anyone has used the stock and the extnsion though (if it's possible).

[telbert twang]

Meanwhile identified its internal 10" speaker , it´s Jensen C10Q (8 ohm version) . The 12" GS112VE is also 8 ohm, which makes togehter 16 ohms. The ext cab jack says "extension cabinet impedance 8-16 ohm" . So, maybe there´d be a chance ?

tt

[jefrs]

The VC15 has only one ext spk socket which shuts off its speaker. The VC30 has two so you can add another in parallel to the internal, it will have a switch to the o/p transformer for the impedance. If VC15 will accept a 16ohm load then it might accept two 8ohm speakers in series. Might and if. Its manual does indeed say 8-16ohm.
The 5W L5T-112 has two ext sockets and the low volume crunch. So you can run into a 2x12 (mine's into a GS212IE) setting as a 4ohm total load (16 parallel to 8). Now the 2x12 can be configured as a 4ohm so 8+4=12, so maybe...

The new Laneys have the magic tone control knob.

[telbert twang]

Is it in general correct that speakers´ series cirquit would reduce loudness, while the parallel one wouldn´t?

[jefrs]

Originally Posted by telbert twang

Is it in general correct that speakers´ series cirquit would reduce loudness, while the parallel one wouldn´t?

No.

Less watts, more air, more loud.


Halving the watts does not halve the decibels, it drops it 3dB
(divide watts by 10 to halve the decibels) but we have 2 speakers...
by crude example:-
Assume combo power 65W
We connect another identical speaker in series
This halves the power to 32W dissipated through 2 speakers, 16W each
So each speaker is -6dB down, the sum total is down -3dB
So the loundness is down, as we are only have half the power
but this 3dB drop is cosidered the limit of perception of loundness change for human hearing. So we see that half the power is not half the volume.

But, if we change the o/p transformer setting to match the new speaker load as one should, we get all the power, 65W dissipated through 2 speakers: 32W each, same loudness, Which for some strange reason we usually percieve as being louder. Perhaps two speakers are more efficient at moving air than one, or they move more air for the same power because we have twice the area of cone pushing it.

Now loudness is measured in decibels (dB) which has a logarithmic scale (base 10 or base 20 depending on system used), unfortunately the human ear is non-linear and non-logarithmic. Also our frequency response changes with loundess. Bagpipes are about 130dB, but the safe listening distance has yet to be determined, so practice is usually restricted to 1/4-mile from nearest habitable dwelling...

I've edited this to mainly to correct my maths because I must have been asleep when I first wrote it.

[telbert twang]

"Less watts, more air, more loud."

less watts or less ohms?

so, if the speakers are both 8 ohm (int.=35W, ext.=75W), and the ext. cab jack says" 8...16 ohm", and i make the internal one not to cut off, then even by series connection (8ohm=>16ohm) the sound should improve and even get louder?

tt

[jefrs]

Sorry Telbert, I was half asleep when I last posted above, I've edited, please re-read.

We had a bit of a think tank this evening and came to the conclusion that if the output voltage of the amp stays the same and you double the load then you get half the power. So 64W becomes 32W, each speaker dissipates 16W.
Now 16 is a quarter of 64, so that is a -6dB drop in loudness. Which for two speakers is a total drop of -3dB. The is the limit of percetion, not half the loundness. So yes there is a reduction in loudness if we do it this way.

But. But we should not do it this way. We should match the output to the load. Many o/p transformers have a switch for 4ohm, 8ohm, 16 ohm. If we had selected the 16ohm one for our two 8ohm speakers in series then we get all the power 64W, each speaker dissipating 32W. Exactly the same happens if we select the 4ohm setting for the two 8ohm speakers in parallel.

Now each speaker is down to half power, but it is not down to half loudness, just -3dB. Just how much of a reduction this is, is complicated. It was explained to me in terms of Vrms, which didn't make sense to me or the other seven people around the table. One team thought the sum total to be 0dB - no change. But we concluded the reduction, being less than half loundness on each speaker, the sum total must be more than one. So two speakers are louder. Maybe. I need to borrow a decibel meter.

Regarding your amp ext speaker socket. You have one socket labelled 8 to 16ohm and it shuts off the internal speaker? - I added a series socket for a 4 to 8ohm load to a Peavey Express-112S Transtube 65W with same type shut off ext socket as yours. It works, I don't know if it is quieter, I certainly don't want it any louder. But I think it sounds better.

[jefrs]

Telbert, I have re-read your o/p.
I have Laney L5T and GS212IE cab.

I tried out all the LC and VC Laneys when I got it. IMO the L20H + 212 cab or New VC30-212 will knock spots off the Peavey Classic 50. The VC30 has two ext jacks and o/p impedance switchable down to 4ohm.

Your VC15 has a 10-in Jensen but the VC30-n12 are fitted with Celestion Seventy80's (not Celestion's best) and I might change these for Vintage30 or 2xG12H for more oomph in a combo. There is a G10 Greenback 30W ...

Your VC15 has one jack intended for 8ohm and permits a mis-match to 16ohm. Do not connect 4ohm. VC15 has a standard pair of EL84, you could change the o/p transformer for one with 4/8/16ohm taps and add a switch. You won't get more power out of it, if you want that, you need a bigger amp.

[telbert twang]

thanks for sharing experience and info , mr jefrs

that 5 "bhp" lionheart is awsome i guess!

so, in short - if i´d buy the gs112 and would mod the vc 15 to allow the set of them to work in series so that the int. 8ohm c10q would work together with the gs 112 cab (8ohm not-the-best-of-celestion 12") on 16 ohm in total, i´d still have more juice improvement in sound? is it worth try?

tt