Peavey Classic 50 dream : 410 or 212 ? (another one)

[telbert twang]

Ok,

So please do not start to beat me up - i have read probably all the related dozens of discussions here about the preferences (410 vs 212). But actually i still haven´t picked up the clear answer for me ( maybe I am just "too long wired!" ). I am probably mainly a bluesy guy, play 90% tele. Not the all way clean-guy but like the cleans sometimes a lot. Like reverb as well. Use often some overdrive. so the Peavey classic would be a good choice for me i guess. But which combo setting to choose? 410 or 212? Once more - what´s their pros and cons, specially talking sound wise?

thanks,
TT

[ruger9]

Here's one thing to think about: if you ever want to replace speakers, the 410 will cost a bloody fortune. I have a 410 and have always wanted to try different speakers, but never have due to the cost.

Also, I think the 410 is heavier... the thing weighs like 70 lbs!!

[telbert twang]

yes, i´ve heared the risk of the stock speakers being half-crap and hence the 410 replacement would be roughly twice as expensive, but the weight of those monsters would be approx. the same, just the dimensions would be bigger for the 410?

But what about the sound differences?

[Casternuts]

If you want to make your Tele happy and lighten the load just a little, throw a 15" Delta Blues in that 4x10 Peavey, you'll never go back. I have had both and the only difference between the two is, you have to bend over farther to reach the controls on the 2X12. The 4x10 will also give you more options. Right now i'm using a 2x12 and like it, but miss my Blues Classic alot. IMHO

[ol man]

Save you from hassle - get a Peavey Delta Blues with one 15"...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=481361

[EZchair Picker]

Not to split hairs, but I found the delta blues to have a different voice than the classics. I realise that they're more similar than different, but both deltas I tried (2x10 and 1x15 I think) sounded darker and had a looser gain sound than the classics (30 +50) which seemed brighter and tighter.

But then again, maybe it's just me. ;)


EDIT: FWIW, reguarding the OP's question....the 2x12 offers more bass, but the 4x10 sounds more focused and sharper......all IMO of coarse!

[markophonic]

I've had a Classic 2 x 12 since the mid-nineties. I like this amp enough that I haven't gotten rid of it...and I have gotten rid of quite a few different amps.

It's Loud AND Clean! The tone is different than my Fender amps...and that is what I like about it. It has a British type flavor to it which I like.

It weighs a freakin' ton!!

It's dang near bullet proof. It's been dropped, it's rolled down flights of stairs and it's still in one piece.

Overdriven channel isn't too bad but I prefer to use a pedal to acheive the overdriven tone I'm looking for. Takes pedals very well.

I really like mine!

[Exit42]

I know everyone will have an opinion. I have had a 410 for quite a few years. I gig with it extensively and I really like it. I find new sounds and tones that I like every time I have a chance to just play with it for a few hours in the studio. I don't think you would go wrong with the 410. They both weigh a lot, but not nearly as much as my old Music Man. It's worth the weight.
The 410 seem to be tighter and more focused to me. I can get all the low end I want out of it.

[telbert twang]

for some reason i think the 410 to be more interesting than 212 as well, i am not experienced though on this matter.

in europe, for example thomann offers them , 410 is about 50 euros higher price than 212 :

http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir....lassic&x=8&y=8

Best would probaly be head + cabinet, but cannot find 50w classic head available over here

tt

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by EZchair Picker

Not to split hairs, but I found the delta blues to have a different voice than the classics. I realise that they're more similar than different, but both deltas I tried (2x10 and 1x15 I think) sounded darker and had a looser gain sound than the classics (30 +50) which seemed brighter and tighter.

+1. I have a 410, and I used to have a DB 210 sitting right beside it. The DB was definitely darker & looser. The circuit is similar, but not the same. I could get my 410 to sound like the DB, but I had to remove 2 power tubes & switch to the 8ohm output to do it. Between the two, I'd go with the 410 over ANY Delta Blues, but not because of tonal differences...

The DB amps have no master volume. That makes it less versatile in gigging situations...unless you buy an attenuator (which I did). The weird thing was, the DB did NOT sound good with an attenuator AT ALL. I much prefered the sound of the 410's Master Volume.

Just some observations to confuse...er, I mean... help you. :)

[boris bubbanov]

I've got a couple of Classic 50 2 x 12s. I like the weight of the 2 x 12, it is at the limit of what I can move easily enough.
I've also respeakered one of the 2 x 12s. I think respeakering a 4 x 10 would just about kill any of us, money wise, so I choose the 2 x12 for that reason as well.

[telbert twang]

thanks for anwers

I´d really rather go 50W classic head and cab (wouldnt it be interesting to build a 212+210 diagonal wise cab by myself`? ), but damn the head is not under production anymore and not often (if ever) sold used here in EU as well...

actually, at the moment i wouldnt find equal use to it as much as for my laney vc15-110 , but i somehow want it so bad , perhaps it is GAS related :-)

tt

[Mike H.]

The 212 has a slight edge with bottom end over the 410 when used by itself. The Classic 50 410 with a 115E expansion cabinet is a tone monster.

[telbert twang]

how the classic 50 410 (and/or 212) sounds at low volumes, both cleans and drive? usable?

tt

[getbent]

I think if I were playing the music you are... I'd probably pick the 4 X 10... I think they sound okay as is.

and use the speakers to death and cruise auctions for inexpensive speakers... you can find great deals if you check craigslist etc..

[telbert twang]

BTW, just discovered an intersting thing though -

According to Thomann (and even Peavey, so it cannot be misprint) the Classic 50 has exactly same "tubing" as classic 30 (4x EL84 and 3x12AX7) , how come it can have different power than classic 30 ?

tt

[EZchair Picker]

I think it in the way they have the tubes wired.

You can pull two power tubes out of the classic 50 and drop the wattage in half, but you can't do that on a classic 30 unless you make some tube mods.

I have both a 50 and a 30 and they really do have the same voicing regardless.

[Murphy Slaw]

I used a Classic 50, 212 combo for a while, but it's not the best EL84 based 50 watt tube amp if ya think about it. They're just cheap and easy to find. I far prefer my Mesa Blue Angel, it's 30 watts would kill my old Peavey.

In fact, I would put a Carvin Bel Air up against any Peavey 50.

Just me.

Best of luck.

Murph.

[telbert twang]

Originally Posted by EZchair Picker

I think it in the way they have the tubes wired.
You can pull two power tubes out of the classic 50 and drop the wattage in half, but you can't do that on a classic 30 unless you make some tube mods.
I have both a 50 and a 30 and they really do have the same voicing regardless.

EZchair Picker - what do you mean by the same voicing ? the overall tone or loudness ?

Isn´t there an ´iron rule´that every tube/valve type has certain output , which in this case means that if there´s 4 EL84-s in final amplification cirquit then it comes 4 x 7.5 = 30W RMS instead of 50 (as the single EL84 should give 7.5W RMS) !? correct me if i´m wrong because i am not much at home with amp rocket science...

tt

[crawdad]

I tried the 4-10, the 2-12 and the 1-15 version of the amp a number of years ago and I ended up with the 1-15. It was the best of the three to my ear. Actually, the only problem with the Blues Classic was that it was actually too loud. The 15" speaker was by far the best sounding one for this amp, IMO.

[ruger9]

Originally Posted by telbert twang

Isn´t there an ´iron rule´that every tube/valve type has certain output , which in this case means that if there´s 4 EL84-s in final amplification cirquit then it comes 4 x 7.5 = 30W RMS instead of 50 (as the single EL84 should give 7.5W RMS) !?

No. I'm no amp tech, but I know that's not correct.

[EZchair Picker]

Originally Posted by telbert twang

EZchair Picker - what do you mean by the same voicing ? the overall tone or loudness ?

Isn´t there an ´iron rule´that every tube/valve type has certain output , which in this case means that if there´s 4 EL84-s in final amplification cirquit then it comes 4 x 7.5 = 30W RMS instead of 50 (as the single EL84 should give 7.5W RMS) !? correct me if i´m wrong because i am not much at home with amp rocket science...

tt

By same voicing, I mean over all tone. The 50 is louder/has more headroom than the 30. It also sounds a little bigger, but that is mainly due to having more speakers.

The rest I can't really comment on as I'm not an amp tech by any streach of the imagination. All I know is that there is a difference in how the tubes are wired up to work and that may be the reason for the difference in wattage despite having the same compliment of tubes.

[ASAT-Sean]

I played on the road with the 410 for years. Good tone but not to road-worthy.

[sromero]

I bought a 2x12 combo and ran a 4x10 extension cabinet out of the second output. I had the best of both worlds. The combo is gone, sadly, but i still use the 4x10 with my Valve Jr.

[Tele-phone man]

Referring to the power question (50W vs 30W for the same tube complement), the difference is achieved via different power and output transformers. Given the same tubes, a higher B+ (from a bigger power transformer) will result in a larger voltage swing across the speakers (which then requires the larger output transformer to handle the greater current and voltage).

[telbert twang]

Originally Posted by Tele-phone man

Referring to the power question (50W vs 30W for the same tube complement), the difference is achieved via different power and output transformers. Given the same tubes, a higher B+ (from a bigger power transformer) will result in a larger voltage swing across the speakers (which then requires the larger output transformer to handle the greater current and voltage).

i see... so it (classic 50) probably eats up some more tubes than classic 30 ?

tt

[Tele-phone man]

I would think so. To get higher power you need higher voltages, which stress the tubes more.

[EZchair Picker]

I asked this question over at the peavey forum to help get an answer and they also said it's the power supply and such. As for the tubes, I give you this quote which I though was pretty good:

Or think of the tubes by the name the rest of the world uses: valves. Power in an amp comes from the power supply. The tubes are just valves that control its flow.

As for tube useage, I wouldn't say that the 50 requires more changes than any other amp.....actually, IMO they seem to last longer than most. YMMV.

[nrps]

How about a Peavey Classic 50 4/10 with the Peavey Classic 212 Cab........

It works.............."Real Good"

[telbert twang]

damn , looks nice! probably not for apartment use ? :-)

[nrps]

Originally Posted by telbert twang

damn , looks nice! probably not for apartment use ? :-)

It does get loud but, the nearest house is over a mile and half away. When I plug in my horses move to the back fence line, my dog leaves the room and my wife shuts the door and My cat curl's up and falls asleep in front of the 212 cab (Bless her heart).

[telbert twang]

damn, this 410 looks cool! i imagine the punch of it,,, Is it usable on low levels as well?

[nrps]

Really good at low levels

[telbert twang]

Originally Posted by nrps

Really good at low levels

both the clean and drive as well (with no pedals) ? And reverb?

[telbert twang]

Meanwhile i´ve noticed they have at least 2 different faces :

http://images1.reviewcentre.com/sent-in/item92542.jpg
vs
http://www.sweetwater.com/images/ite...Class50410.jpg

What year the modification has been done and did they change something inside as well? Any comparison older vs brand new one?

[BootRoots]

Originally Posted by telbert twang

Meanwhile i´ve noticed they have at least 2 different faces :

http://images1.reviewcentre.com/sent-in/item92542.jpg
vs
http://www.sweetwater.com/images/ite...Class50410.jpg

What year the modification has been done and did they change something inside as well? Any comparison older vs brand new one?

i think the "cod piece" was added a year or two ago. As far as I can tell, its only cosmetic. Probably has something to do with 98% of classic 30 and 50 owners ditching the Metalhead peavey logo 5 minutes after they get the amp. I guess Hartley wanted people to see someone playing a peavey rather than confusing it with a bassman or something.

[GuitarJonz]

Originally Posted by Casternuts

If you want to make your Tele happy and lighten the load just a little, throw a 15" Delta Blues in that 4x10 Peavey, you'll never go back.

Have you actually removed the 4x10 speakers from a Peavey Classic 50 410 and replaced them with a single 15" speaker?? If so, tell us more about the sound difference, and what speaker you used. I assume that the baffle is removeable?

[GuitarJonz]

Originally Posted by telbert twang

how the classic 50 410 (and/or 212) sounds at low volumes, both cleans and drive? usable?

Heres Arlen Roth playing through a Peavey Classic 50 410. Sounds pretty fine to me. I understand that even today he still uses it live. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have a 53 blackguard tele and those fingers to work it

Peavey Classic 50 410 in action

[telbert twang]

cool!

[telbert twang]

generally speaking about classic series (specially the 50) TONE - to which side it leans more - is it more ´fenderish´ or something more ´voxy´ , or exactly in the middle ?

or it is such versatile that good eq-ing could do near both?

TT