Amp kit progression

T_red7882 · April 6th, 2008, 08:12 PM

So, lets say you sucessfully complete a 5e3 kit. Is it safe to assume one could then move up to a tweed twin kit and then a blackface kit then a british style amp kit? or are there many other factors at play where the progressive idea wouldn't work?

getbent · April 6th, 2008, 08:18 PM

Yes. That would be the progression.

Now, if you build your 5e3 and really only follow the layout and you don't learn how to use your multimeter, you aren't going to be too successful at more advanced amps... but, if you really get a handle on the 5e3, it would be a great stepping stone to the next level.

T_red7882 · April 6th, 2008, 08:22 PM

in what way do you mean to use the multimeter?

getbent · April 6th, 2008, 09:01 PM

I mean that you come to understand how to and what it means when you measure voltages at different locations on the amp. You can follow a layout and often get an amp to fire up and even sound okay... but, as you work with progressively more complex designs that have more features, the interdependencies and complexities require the ability to troubleshoot and determine where your issues are...

Dacious · April 6th, 2008, 09:36 PM

A Fender Blackface amp with reverb and tremolo is amongst the most complex of amps to build without noises, a Marshall JTM style is simpler. The only exception being the Vox AC30 with topboost and tremolo which is apparently a nightmare due to using 3 tube sections for the trem.

T_red7882 · April 6th, 2008, 10:07 PM

It seems possible to do though, right? Is there anyone out there who has done a vox kit or blackface kit?

tombm3 · April 6th, 2008, 10:19 PM

My first kit was an Allen V-18. This is a beefed up version of a BF Princeton. This kit comes without step by step directions, just schematics and layout diagrams. No problems whatsoever. All the parts top notch and if you ever get stuck, David was only an email away.

The build time was less than a weeks time and 15 - 16 hours total. Since then I've gotten an Allen 5F1+ and an Allen Sweet Spot that I am currently building.

I may have had an advantage since my other hobby is amateur radio and I have put together my share of kits and projects. If you can solder well, follow directions or layouts and complete big projects you shouldn't have any problems.

Dacious · April 6th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Oh yes, I mean it is possible. Just that a Marshall is basically a Bassman, so easier than a BF Fender which is probably a little more fincky to get right. I built Doug Hoffman's Vox schemo and wedged reverb in there, so anything is possible. There are BF kits around with the normal channel and trem removed which makes it easier, too.

Mr Allen's kits certainly get a good rap.

RomanS · April 6th, 2008, 11:27 PM

I built a JTM45-clone as my first amp, from a Weber kit - I'd say it is way less difficult than a BF Fender (reverb & tremolo circuits and two channels...) or a Vox (weird construction with preamp and poweramp split up on seperate boards placed in different locations inside that weird angled Vox amp cab).

jh45gun · April 7th, 2008, 02:06 AM

Thats why I am sticking with the tweed builds less complicated and they sound great and if I want reverb or tremlo it is just a stomp box away with my Digitech RP pedals. Waiting for parts on my Super build but my 5e3 takes the Digitech Pedal very well it sounds great and has good verb and tremlo sounds plus all the other goodies it has to offer.

Scott S · April 8th, 2008, 12:44 PM

Addictive, isn't it?

Once you have a success or two under your belt, deciding what to build next is the hard part!

- Scott

sjhusting · April 8th, 2008, 12:48 PM

It's a horrible, horrible disease. It's just not possible to stop - you always need a fix. Just one more.

steven

TelZilla · April 8th, 2008, 01:22 PM

I built a Brown Vibroverb (fixed bias, two channel, Verb and Trem) as a first amp.

I think as long as your expectations are realistic, you take your time, and read read read before you pick up a soldering iron, you could build a BF Fender first time out, even if you're just painting by numbers.

That said, I'm not sure you'd want to build any amp without using a multimeter (sorta helps you figure out if you're in danger of incinerating tubes, trannies and the like)

But after you build a tweed, you might not want to bother

stax · April 8th, 2008, 03:43 PM

My first build was bringing back to life a Pro reverb using a Hoffman Board,
http://www.el34world.com/boardmaker/oldboardkitpage.htm
(scroll down for the AB763) and it was a real challenge.
After that I did a couple of 18-watt clones and then finished with a 5F1 Champ.
Guess as usual I did it all the wrong way round.:

Stax

T_red7882 · April 9th, 2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelZilla

I built a Brown Vibroverb (fixed bias, two channel, Verb and Trem) as a first amp.

I think as long as your expectations are realistic, you take your time, and read read read before you pick up a soldering iron, you could build a BF Fender first time out, even if you're just painting by numbers.

That said, I'm not sure you'd want to build any amp without using a multimeter (sorta helps you figure out if you're in danger of incinerating tubes, trannies and the like)

But after you build a tweed, you might not want to bother

what do you think i should "read read read?" any books you recommend?

pgambon · April 9th, 2008, 02:06 AM

Following the voltages and signal flow is critical to troubleshooting an amp. I'd say equaly important is being able to read the schematics. If you can follow the schematic and are familiar with the layout, you can build almost anything with confidence.

RomanS · April 9th, 2008, 07:40 AM

About books: Dave Hunter's "The Guitar Amp Handbook" is an absolute must-read for every tube-amp newbie!

Scott S · April 9th, 2008, 06:27 PM

And if you like in-depth circuit analysis (i.e., no longer a newbie), you need this book! http://www.pentodepress.com/contents.html

- Scott

TelZilla · April 10th, 2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_red7882

what do you think i should "read read read?" any books you recommend?

I read the Hunter book, I think. It was the one with the gut pix of all these classic tube amps. He also does a thing where he walks you through the circuit of a 5F2, which I found really helpful.

But I think the internet is also a great resource. www.aikenamps.com, www.el34world.com, and the Weber forums (http://www.tedweber.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl) were all very helpful to me, as was this forum and www.18watt.com.

There's also some great information at www.thetubestore.com (no affiliation), particularly this, this, and this. There is some "salespeak", but also some good info.

I also read parts of an old US army tube manual from the 50's that was really helpful in understanding what's going on inside yer tubes. You can find it for free on the net (though I can't find it right now, of course).

Also, just be really methodical. I printed out the schemo and layout, and went from input jack to speaker on the layout and labeled every component with the corrseponding part info (r1, C6, etc.) in pencil. As I did it, I tried to think about what each component was supposed to be doing.

And if you haven't done much soldering, buy some terminal strips (supercheap at radioshack) and some hookup wire (ditto) and practice a bit before doing it on anything real.

TelZilla · April 10th, 2008, 11:42 AM

Here's the book I was talking about: go here, and look for Basic Theory and Applications of Electron Tubes, 4th one down.

April 6th, 2008, 08:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
T_red7882 Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: San Francisco Age: 26 Posts: 785	Amp kit progression So, lets say you sucessfully complete a 5e3 kit. Is it safe to assume one could then move up to a tweed twin kit and then a blackface kit then a british style amp kit? or are there many other factors at play where the progressive idea wouldn't work?

April 6th, 2008, 08:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
getbent Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Benito County, California Posts: 10,186 37 Photos	Yes. That would be the progression. Now, if you build your 5e3 and really only follow the layout and you don't learn how to use your multimeter, you aren't going to be too successful at more advanced amps... but, if you really get a handle on the 5e3, it would be a great stepping stone to the next level. __________________ 'never pet a burning dog'

April 6th, 2008, 09:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
getbent Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Benito County, California Posts: 10,186 37 Photos	I mean that you come to understand how to and what it means when you measure voltages at different locations on the amp. You can follow a layout and often get an amp to fire up and even sound okay... but, as you work with progressively more complex designs that have more features, the interdependencies and complexities require the ability to troubleshoot and determine where your issues are... __________________ 'never pet a burning dog'

April 6th, 2008, 09:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
Dacious Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Godzone Posts: 2,612 35 Photos	A Fender Blackface amp with reverb and tremolo is amongst the most complex of amps to build without noises, a Marshall JTM style is simpler. The only exception being the Vox AC30 with topboost and tremolo which is apparently a nightmare due to using 3 tube sections for the trem. __________________ My other Telecaster is a Thinline The Tele Bible, Ch 1, v 10 Love thy Telecaster, covet not thy neighbour's Strat!

April 6th, 2008, 10:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
tombm3 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: WNY Posts: 193	Blackface Kit My first kit was an Allen V-18. This is a beefed up version of a BF Princeton. This kit comes without step by step directions, just schematics and layout diagrams. No problems whatsoever. All the parts top notch and if you ever get stuck, David was only an email away. The build time was less than a weeks time and 15 - 16 hours total. Since then I've gotten an Allen 5F1+ and an Allen Sweet Spot that I am currently building. I may have had an advantage since my other hobby is amateur radio and I have put together my share of kits and projects. If you can solder well, follow directions or layouts and complete big projects you shouldn't have any problems.

April 6th, 2008, 08:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
T_red7882 Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: San Francisco Age: 26 Posts: 785	in what way do you mean to use the multimeter?

April 6th, 2008, 10:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
T_red7882 Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: San Francisco Age: 26 Posts: 785	It seems possible to do though, right? Is there anyone out there who has done a vox kit or blackface kit?

April 6th, 2008, 10:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dacious Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Godzone Posts: 2,612 35 Photos	Oh yes, I mean it is possible. Just that a Marshall is basically a Bassman, so easier than a BF Fender which is probably a little more fincky to get right. I built Doug Hoffman's Vox schemo and wedged reverb in there, so anything is possible. There are BF kits around with the normal channel and trem removed which makes it easier, too. Mr Allen's kits certainly get a good rap. __________________ My other Telecaster is a Thinline The Tele Bible, Ch 1, v 10 Love thy Telecaster, covet not thy neighbour's Strat!

April 6th, 2008, 11:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
RomanS Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vienna, Austria Age: 37 Posts: 2,886 14 Photos	I built a JTM45-clone as my first amp, from a Weber kit - I'd say it is way less difficult than a BF Fender (reverb & tremolo circuits and two channels...) or a Vox (weird construction with preamp and poweramp split up on seperate boards placed in different locations inside that weird angled Vox amp cab). __________________ http://www.pbase.com/romans http://www.myspace.com/romans212

April 7th, 2008, 02:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,021	Thats why I am sticking with the tweed builds less complicated and they sound great and if I want reverb or tremlo it is just a stomp box away with my Digitech RP pedals. Waiting for parts on my Super build but my 5e3 takes the Digitech Pedal very well it sounds great and has good verb and tremlo sounds plus all the other goodies it has to offer.

April 8th, 2008, 12:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,721	Addictive, isn't it? Once you have a success or two under your belt, deciding what to build next is the hard part! - Scott

April 8th, 2008, 12:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
sjhusting Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 657 15 Photos	It's a horrible, horrible disease. It's just not possible to stop - you always need a fix. Just one more. steven

April 8th, 2008, 01:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
TelZilla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cleveburg, USA Age: 38 Posts: 1,972 6 Photos	I built a Brown Vibroverb (fixed bias, two channel, Verb and Trem) as a first amp. I think as long as your expectations are realistic, you take your time, and read read read before you pick up a soldering iron, you could build a BF Fender first time out, even if you're just painting by numbers. That said, I'm not sure you'd want to build any amp without using a multimeter (sorta helps you figure out if you're in danger of incinerating tubes, trannies and the like) But after you build a tweed, you might not want to bother __________________ Thanks,Nick Nec Aspera Terrent

April 8th, 2008, 03:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
stax Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brentwood U.K. Age: 52 Posts: 317 9 Photos	My first build was bringing back to life a Pro reverb using a Hoffman Board, http://www.el34world.com/boardmaker/oldboardkitpage.htm (scroll down for the AB763) and it was a real challenge. After that I did a couple of 18-watt clones and then finished with a 5F1 Champ. Guess as usual I did it all the wrong way round.: Stax

April 9th, 2008, 02:06 AM	#16 (permalink)
pgambon Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 124	Following the voltages and signal flow is critical to troubleshooting an amp. I'd say equaly important is being able to read the schematics. If you can follow the schematic and are familiar with the layout, you can build almost anything with confidence.

April 9th, 2008, 07:40 AM	#17 (permalink)
RomanS Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vienna, Austria Age: 37 Posts: 2,886 14 Photos	About books: Dave Hunter's "The Guitar Amp Handbook" is an absolute must-read for every tube-amp newbie! __________________ http://www.pbase.com/romans http://www.myspace.com/romans212

April 9th, 2008, 06:27 PM	#18 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,721	And if you like in-depth circuit analysis (i.e., no longer a newbie), you need this book! http://www.pentodepress.com/contents.html - Scott

April 10th, 2008, 11:42 AM	#20 (permalink)
TelZilla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cleveburg, USA Age: 38 Posts: 1,972 6 Photos	found it! Here's the book I was talking about: go here, and look for Basic Theory and Applications of Electron Tubes, 4th one down. __________________ Thanks,Nick Nec Aspera Terrent