Japanese designed amps?

[tiktok]

I wonder why the Japanese never went into the amp business the same way the pursued the guitar market? Copies of everything Fender and Gibson ever made, eventually of superb quality and attention to detail, but they never copied any of the amps, nor came up with an origianal tube amp design of their own that took hold outside the country.

Or is there a Japanese equivalent to Traynor that you just don't hear about? Maybe amps weighed too much to be cost effective to build there and sell in the States, or were there import barriers?

[endzone]

I can't think of any amps coming from Japan today. Back in the 70's, Univox made a pretty good splash and from what I remember were pretty good amps.

[skeksis]

there's a brand called Elk that copied Fender and Marshall designs, and some were exported to the USA or more often brought back by individuals. I saw a 2x10" model at a local shop that could very easily have been confused for a white knob/BF Fender at 15', though lots of differences up close. it was called a "Pro-Sonic Amp". I've had a couple MIJ amps (one was called St Moritz), but they've been small, light, and generally nothing special.

[whsjosh]

There were some back in 60-70s. Yamaha, Guyatone, Elk, Teisco, Acetone... Most of them were clones of Fender tube amps, I think. Elk is amp section of Fender Japan now, and Acetone is Roland now. But they went to Trasistor amps anyway.

The pic I've attached is early 90's Fender Japan "Tweed Champ". It's a nice sounding little tube amp with a 6V6 and a 12AX7.

Yottie

[Big John]

Check out this link !

Naughty Tokai !!, looks good though .......

I remember them doing a 'tweed' amp too, guess it might have been this one, Rob Jackson in Cambridge uses one and swears by it, and it does sound the business !

[surfoverb]

The Ventures used Guyatone amps for thier "On Stage" album that sound pretty good.

[tjalla]

I played a lil 2x6V6-powered Teisco with a 4x6" (yes, four by six inch) speaker arrangement - cool reverb and swampy trem, probably no more than 12 watts. Sounded great! dude was selling it, and I probably should have grabbed it in hindsight...

Trev

[RomanS]

Over here in Europe you can find lots of Japanese Fender copies from the '70s, from Guyatone, Elk, and a number of "house brands" of local music stores.

[jhundt]

I remember some good-looking but terrible-sounding Yamaha SS amps.

Once I was offered another Yamaha, I took it home and tried it for a few days. It was very much like a Boogie - small combo, covered in some kinda brown vinyl, weighed 600 pounds or more, had at least 40 knobs, switches, etc (well, maybe I'm exaggerating a little...)

and.... it sounded terrible. Terrible to me, anyway. With all those controls I just couldn't get a single sound that I liked.

[casterway]

I had a little Yamaha 20 watt that was really nice. Can't remember what happened to it. I sold it at some point, or traded it in on something.

[winny pooh]

A buddy of mine has a great sounding Elk transistor amp, compares well to a jazz chorus and built silverface style with reverb and trem. We both loved it, what character! He would often joke that he was an Elk-aholic (with this crazy Jack Nicholson grin)
Would love to hear a tube version. Billy G has used some tube Tiesco's for Rythmeen I read. Old Yamahas, yuk.

[WrapAround]

It's mostly cultural I believe.

For one thing, the way people live over there isn't conducive to playing electric guitars amplified at home and it's not like they have basements and garage that you can go and crank-it-up. You'd generally go to a rehearsal studio to do that and you'd take some sort of public transportation to do that. It's pretty hard to take a long your tube amp that's any bigger than 5E3. People just go to rehearsal studios and use what's there. JC120 is usually included in the rental but one has an option to upgrade to Twin, Marshall, etc for extra fees.

So in an environment like that, manufacturers don't have much incentive in putting a lot of R&D time and money in coming up with a guitar amplification product line.

[surfoverb]

Originally Posted by WrapAround

It's mostly cultural I believe.

[backalleyblues]

The Roland Bolts weren't bad amps, either... believe they were a hybrid with a tube power section...

The first generation Yamahas were horrible, I must agree...

Franc Robert
Back Alley Blues Band

[Tim Armstrong]

I came across a Teisco Checkmate head in a pawn shop in Loveland, Colorado, about ten years ago, and I could kick myself for not buying it. It was pretty cheap as I recall, and sounded great!

Cheers, Tim

[marshman]

I have an MIJ Univox Bass head (model 1051, I think)--3x12AX7, 4x6L6GC that was absolutley awesome--til I broke it. Now that I've begun to learn about amps and can at least drain the filter caps without killin myself, I may try to sort out what's wrong with it.

This is an interesting way to spend an hour or so if this sort of thing interests you...

http://www.univox.org/

[Tony474]

Originally Posted by skeksis

there's a brand called Elk that copied Fender and Marshall designs...

I had an Elk tube amp and cabinet in the early 70s that was visually something of a Dual Showman copy, though if memory serves the power section of the amp had two tubes rather than four. The cabinet was semi-open-backed and had two 12'' speakers with rather weedy-looking horseshoe magnets. Sounded very nice, though, and seemed well-constructed. I've never seen another in the UK.

A first-model Yamaha G50-112 served me well for a while in the mid-70s. Later a Roland JC-77 came and went without either distinguishing or disgracing itself but I still regret having previously sold a 100-watt orange-coloured Cube. At present three of my nine guitar amps are Rolands, a Cube 60 and two Blues Cube 60s, a 1 x 12 and a 3 x 10, though the last two are seemingly US-designed and built.

[candh]

Joining the party late but during my time here I've had quite a few of the so called Fender "knockoff" Elks, Guyatones, Teisco, and Fender Japan's FAT series amps.
Sorry fellas, but they all suck... except one....read on.

The Elks and Guytones "look" like they should sound good. The cabs are solid, the speakers are ok, the iron is suprisingly robust... but alas cheap internal components killed the potential. Why o Why would they load the amp up with those Atlas paper in oil caps and wirewounds?? (rhetorical question). Also, the array of variations within models from year to year is comical.

I still buy the odd one off Yahoo auctions as a donor for one-off builds. Everything but the boards are very suitable and make for a great sounding DIY amp and most of them come with Matsu****a pre's which are great sounding tubes if they aren't too tired.

The Fender FAT (all tube) series (Fat 1, 3, and 5) amps are pretty decent. I have a FAT1 that I replaced the stock OT for a Hammond 125ESE and a few other minor upgrades and ya....it's a killer little super champ. The 30 and 50 watt FAT3 and FAT5 are pretty respectable too and all three are proving somewhat valueable on the used market.

Here's the FAT1


A pic before the upgrades.

[JayFreddy]

Ditto Univox and Guyatone comments above...

It's my understanding that the "group of unnamed investors" who helped buy Fender Musical Instruments from CBS in the mid 80's were in fact, a consortium of Japanese investors. They kept a lid on it due to fears that it could trigger a negative backlash of nationalism, etc.

Also, many of the circuits in amps from that period, Fender and otherwise, were being made in Japan. For example, the much loved/loathed Red Knob Twin. I can't remember where I heard this and can't prove it, but I heard that the internal circuits for the RK Twin, and for many of the other "Rivera-era Fenders" were made in Japan, and then assembled in the USA. The caps in those are definitely Japanese...

Personally I like the Yamaha G100 series, especially the II and III versions. They are solid state, but can sound very musical if you have patience and/or the aptitude.

Mike Stern still uses his 1982 G100-II to this day. Ain't broke, no need to fix it.

[Tony474]

Originally Posted by JayFreddy

Personally I like the Yamaha G100 series, especially the II and III versions. They are solid state, but can sound very musical if you have patience and/or the aptitude.

Mike Stern still uses his 1982 G100-II to this day. Ain't broke, no need to fix it.

This may be only marginally relevant, but I recall that in "A Star is Born", the movie remake with Streisand and Kristofferson, all the band's equipment was by Yamaha - somewhat unlikely to movie-watching musicians in the know and clearly a bit of product placement.

Anyone know of other similar examples, particularly involving Japanese gear?

[JayFreddy]

I can't believe this thread has made it this far without anyone mentioning the Roland JC120... I prefer a Twin to the JC120, but a JC120 will get the job done.

[candh]

Originally Posted by JayFreddy

I can't believe this thread has made it this far without anyone mentioning the Roland JC120... I prefer a Twin to the JC120, but a JC120 will get the job done.

But...but...Yamahas and Rolands don't have any glass..

[Tony474]

Originally Posted by JayFreddy

I can't believe this thread has made it this far without anyone mentioning the Roland JC120...

True, but I did mention the JC77 I once had, as well as other Rolands.

Originally Posted by candh

But...but...Yamahas and Rolands don't have any glass..

And your point is...?

Actually, another one I haven't seen mentioned yet was by a firm called Aidean Engineering. It was called the Mesia Zoom and as the name suggests was a Boogie Mk I copy - at least visually. There were 60-watt and 100-watt variants with two and four tubes respectively (see, at least these had some glass to make you happy) as well as a 100-watt solid-state version. Seemingly they did sound good, though not like the Boogies they resembled closely enough to cause a lawsuit, and it's been suggested that they had a penchant for overheating.

The tube versions were available in the UK briefly in the early 70s and by coincidence two of them came up on UK eBay a couple of weeks ago. One of them sold for £200 (US$400) and a much nicer one, on which I bid but got pipped at the last second, for slightly less. Probably just as well I missed it - both my bad back and my wife would have been put out...

For the curious:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mesia-1x12-all...QQcmdZViewItem

[Tony474]

Come to think of it, not guitar amps, but two Matsush'ta (i.e. Panasonic) brands, Toa and Ramsa, enjoyed some success here a while ago in the P.A. market. I've been quite impressed when I've now and again encountered them.

[6942]

I have a late 60's/early 70's Teisco Checkmate 88 guitar amp.
It uses two 8", 16 ohm speakers in parallel.
Even with the volume knob on "10"....it's not very loud!?
Makes a pretty funky small practice amp though.

Steve