I have a decision to make, which one?

[hugo]

I can either buy a Traynor 50W old amp in excellent condition or make payments on a Blackface Super Reverb that's in mint condition? The Traynor is 400 and the BF is 2000. I just want to make sure that if I buy the BF, it's a good amp and if it will appreciate with time? I just don't want to pass up the Traynor if the BF isn't a worthy investment and a great amp?
Also, what things should I worry about with these amps? How will I know what's been changed and what hasn't? The guy who's selling the amps is the owner of a mom and pops music store. Just an older couple. He apparently has over 200 amps in his house. Most are investments. He says they're all over the place, in the dining room etc. I'm just wondering if there's any changed that could have been made to these amps that would hurt their value??
He also says he has a SF Super Reverb for 1400 that's completely original. I know what he means by that but vs. what?
Do you understand what i'm trying to ask here?

[morroben]

For the record, I don't know how those prices compare to market values. Nonetheless, pick a price range...buy the best amp you can in that price range. If your price range is $2000 then you should buy the BF...why buy the Traynor if you have some money to spend? If your price range is $500, then the Traynor might be a good deal.
I hope this doesn't come across as rude or condescending, honestly...but from what I've read from your posts it seems like you're just diving right into the guitar thing and the cases of GAS headfirst. That's a great thing...but maybe not the point at which to spend $2000 on an amp. Even if that's a good deal and a great amp, which it may or may not be, it might not be the right amp for you. Test the waters a bit before you go spending too much money...especially if it's payments. I have a personal rule that music equipment doesn't involve payments. Debt can take the fun out of anything.

[jh45gun]

Do you want an amp to play or collect? Yea both Fenders would be great but your paying a premium price for both of them and like you said you have no idea if they need work or not. Chances are you could get either Fender and they may need a cap job or tubes ect stuff that is routine maintenence with tube amps though a cap job should last a good while as should good tubes. The traynor on the other hand may need work too down the line but if so at 400 bucks you should be able to afford to put some money into it. You never did say which model Traynor it is which one is it? If it was me for a playing amp I would get the Traynor. If your hooked on a great amp and a collectable than I would get either one of the Supers. As far as knowing whats origional or needs work unless you could take it to a tech and have him give you an estimate your taking a slight gamble. Hard to say if the guy selling would allow that or not. I know if I was buying an amp for 2000 bucks I would want to know if anything drastically has been changed. Caps and tubes and resistors should not affect value. Some odd mods I would think would.

[surfoverb]

If you are asking if a BF super reverb in mint condition is a good amp then the answer is YES. Either have an amp tech take a look at it or have the owner take the chassis out and take pics and you will be able to tell if it is what its supposed to be including the year. If he's not willing to take the chassis out then tell him to piss off. A $400 Trayner will be worth about $400 in 10 years and a mint BF anything will be worth whatever the going price is now + a few hundred more. I wouldn't trust a Mom or Pop anymore than a Guitar Center really.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by surfoverb

If you are asking if a BF super reverb in mint condition is a good amp then the answer is YES. Either have an amp tech take a look at it or have the owner take the chassis out and take pics and you will be able to tell if it is what its supposed to be including the year. If he's not willing to take the chassis out then tell him to piss off. A $400 Trayner will be worth about $400 in 10 years and a mint BF anything will be worth whatever the going price is now + a few hundred more. I wouldn't trust a Mom or Pop anymore than a Guitar Center really.

GOOD ADVICE, but Traynors have been going up in prices and 400 for a good working tube amp expecially a 50 watter is not out of line. On the other hand thats top dollar for that BF and there is no guarantees that the prices will stay high. I have seen more than one collectable item that has dropped in value due to a fickle market. Not saying that will be the case with amps but it could be you never know. As far as trusting your right that old saying let the buyer beware has never been truer than when dealing with electronics. when I buy electronic gear at rummage sales I offer little money and tell them why as since I usually have no way to test it if it is not hooked up and working in the case of vcrs/dvd/stereo ect or amps ect that I do not have nothing to plug into ect I tell folks I have been burned so many times with stuff folks claim that works unless I can get it for next to nothing I will pass. Some times I get stuff some times I do not. In the case of music gear I will offer a bit more but I do not go overboard either as knowing most stuff for sale at rummage sales is a crap shoot. Music stores are different as you can take it back but I have bought less than stellar things at music stores too. In fact back in the 90's I felt my SF super was ailing and back then it was just an other amp as amp prices were not as crazy as they are now. I traded for 3 amps one at time that I took out and played them at gigs and they all had issues finally got my amp back and traded it at an other store for a New Peavey. Knowing what I know now I wish I would have just restored my Super but back then it was a 200 dollar amp not a 1500 one.

[hugo]

Morroben, I understand what you're saying but it's not Gas in this case. I need an amp. I just don't know whether to buy a new one or spend 400 on a Traynor 50 watt. Not sure of the name "bassman" maybe? I'll be checking it out tomorrow. Anyway, then I started thinking "should I get an amp that I will use probably for good and will be a good investment most likely"? The payments I mentioned are no interest payments, just written on a receipt and paid in whatever way I want over 3 months. So, I'm not spending extra on interest and taxes. The thing is I could go out and buy an amp for 500 and not be happy with it or it may not be enough amp down the road. One thing I truly don't want, that is amps. I want an amp and only one. I'm not into collecting electronics. I do like guitars and I buy what I like, investment is not the issue there. I just was wondering if buyiing an amp that is enough power at any time and it could be a worthwhile investment at the same time, is the way to go. To be honest, I don't want to spend 2 grand. Truly I don't but i want to make a smart move. I dont' want an amp collection.
Maybe I should just stick with my original idea which was to buy a new Peavy Classic 30 or a Delta Blues? Maybe that's the safest, least expensive way to go? Ya, maybe I should stay away from old right now because I don't know enough about vintage to know what I'm getting. I've bought a couple guitars through these guys and they're not ripoff artists. They've given me a case just to get a guitar home with the promise of bringing it back. I've stayed there talking several times about guitars etc. Nice people and I trust them. What I don't trust is my knowledge of vintage. I think I'll stick with new and inexpensive for now. Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it.

[Scott S]

"Enough power at any time" is mighty nebulous. Do you plan to gig?

If you just need something decent to practice with at home, build a Champ or Deluxe from a kit. They're not that complex, you'll be proud of it, and the lack of "options" will keep you focused on your playing.

Just my two bits,
- Scott

[mchet]

Originally Posted by hugo

Morroben, I understand what you're saying but it's not Gas in this case. I need an amp. I just don't know whether to buy a new one or spend 400 on a Traynor 50 watt. Not sure of the name "bassman" maybe? I'll be checking it out tomorrow. Anyway, then I started thinking "should I get an amp that I will use probably for good and will be a good investment most likely"? The payments I mentioned are no interest payments, just written on a receipt and paid in whatever way I want over 3 months. So, I'm not spending extra on interest and taxes. The thing is I could go out and buy an amp for 500 and not be happy with it or it may not be enough amp down the road. One thing I truly don't want, that is amps. I want an amp and only one. I'm not into collecting electronics. I do like guitars and I buy what I like, investment is not the issue there. I just was wondering if buyiing an amp that is enough power at any time and it could be a worthwhile investment at the same time, is the way to go. To be honest, I don't want to spend 2 grand. Truly I don't but i want to make a smart move. I dont' want an amp collection.
Maybe I should just stick with my original idea which was to buy a new Peavy Classic 30 or a Delta Blues? Maybe that's the safest, least expensive way to go? Ya, maybe I should stay away from old right now because I don't know enough about vintage to know what I'm getting. I've bought a couple guitars through these guys and they're not ripoff artists. They've given me a case just to get a guitar home with the promise of bringing it back. I've stayed there talking several times about guitars etc. Nice people and I trust them. What I don't trust is my knowledge of vintage. I think I'll stick with new and inexpensive for now. Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it.

Hey Hugo, While I am no gear guru, I know from watching friends and family gig since I was born that you don't need to go into hawk to get an amp that will do the job. Spend some time at a different retailer with some other amps. If you are going to gig, try to figure out how large your venues are likely to be MOSTof the time. Most of those I know that are gigging do not have a twin reverb, sf or bf. They are running with 20-50 watt rigs that they mic at larger venues. Hope this helps... Good luck!

[pchilson]

Hey Hugo,
If what I read of your exploits is correct then you are much like me other than the buying a guitar a week activity. What I mean is you are relatively new to learning guitar and want to get the "right" equipment. I have been through several amps, tubes and SS, in my short time at this. Now granted my money clip doesn't play in the same sandbox as yours but I have settled on what I believe to be my perfect for me amp which is a Fender Super Champ XD. Gives me a good compromise between price, great sounding and I can play it low volume or high volume and it sounds good either way.
I don't have experience with the high dollar Fenders but from what I read a lot of them use LOG pots for the volume and it is very difficult to get a useable low volume out of them, 90% of the volume comes from 1 thru 4 or so. Also no headphone jack but neither does my SCXD. I use another amp or my Digitech RP for headphones when needed.
Theres a lot of choices out there and it is very easy to get the "wrong" thing if you are blinded by specs or reputations. There is probably no way other than chance to get the right thing first time every time but it sure is fun trying. Good luck!

[Tim Swartz]

Originally Posted by surfoverb

A $400 Trayner will be worth about $400 in 10 years and a mint BF anything will be worth whatever the going price is now + a few hundred more.

I'm thinking the appreciation rate may be a bit understated. In the last 15 years both of those amps have tripled $$$. I would expect in the next 10 years both would be close to double their current price (if they are extremely clean).

[jh45gun]

If it was me I would stick with older amps that do not have PCB boards easier to fix and I think more dependable. I say that because yea while older PTP or turret board style amps could have bad solder joints I have seen lots of PCB stuff with bad solder joints as a machine is doing it not a human so problems can occur. Plus the older non PCB amps are easier to fix so they are cheaper to fix.

[IronJoe]

I read some advice once that I'll paraphrase. I think I saw it in Dave Hunter's tube amp book. "Spend as much on your amp as you're willing to spend on your guitar."

If you're playing $2000 guitars, then buy a high-end amp that will be everything you ever dreamed of. Expect to pay a couple grand for it. On the other hand, if you're playing guitars that are less than $1000, buy an amp in the same range.

As far as amps with PCBs, not all PCB amps are created equal. If the sockets and jacks are all connected to the PCB then it may be a problem waiting to happen. But I wouldn't be concerned if it's just caps and resistors on the board.

[fenson]

IMO a good working Super reverb is a far better amp than any amp Traynor has ever had out or will ever put out period. Sound wise that is.
That being said though I would look for a used Custom Vibro King instead of a Super Rev. if I wanted to spend 2000 or more on a Fender amp.

The only old Traynors that IMO sound any good are the Custom specials. The guitar mates etc. suck IMO Do not know when Fender switched the circuits in the Super Rev. that silver face may have a black face circuit. Others will know , get the #s of the chassis or transformers check it out. Also some of the non master SF sound very good.

[winny pooh]

For the record, older Traynors are hand wired and often sound great, plus you are not going to take a mint Fender out gigging so it can get all bashed up?
Have you played them? I think this is the most important factor.

[jh45gun]

I would grab an old traynor I do not know why you think they sound so crappy Fenson they have a great reputation. I have a Mono Block II which is not even a tube amp and it is a fantastic amp I would never get rid of it.

[Flat357]

Buy yourself something that you are going to use .
Both amps are neither use nor ornament for house use , and you aren't gigging yet from what I can gather .
I would even consider buying a pod etc if you are only using it for home use .

[Telarkaster]

Depends on your budget. Traynor's are great amps.

If it were me I would look long and hard at the SF Super Reverb if I could afford it.

When I was shopping for my Twin I saw one for $1600 and it was simply amazing, one of the nicest amps I've ever played through. I went with the Twin because I always wanted one, it was less $$ and more portable.

Yes, the more I think of it, go for the SF Super Reverb!

[hugo]

See, that's what I like about this forum. You ask a question and you get many different opinions based on the question. That gives a person a chance to weigh out the different views and hopefully, make an informed decision. Now, if I go by this thread, I have to buy a SuperChamp XD, a Traynor, and a SF Super Reverb. LOL. JK.
I definitely would not buy any of the used stuff without getting some kind of deal. Some money off because the SF is a little beat up, nothing serious just the silverface is a little dented and a corner is a little worn. I know everything is still original on it though and the blackface has had some work done to it. I do have a little fascination with the Traynors. I will find out all about all the amps first of course. I've also heard nothing but rave reviews on the SuperChamp as well.
Pchilson, just so you know, I don't have tons of cash at all. I received an inheritance and my wife has graciously allowed me a chunk of it to spend because of something I did that she felt deserved rewarding. I just don't want people going around thinking I've got tons of guitars and tons of cash. If I've given that impression, I apologize. I have only one expensive guitar and that's my American Deluxe. I have 4 inexpensive Squiers. I also have a few guitars in the 2 - 800 dollar range. Nothing collectable at all. A few of the few are squiers.
That said, i do have a 60's classic that's on order. My wife and I just bought our first house and I'm 48. So, as you can see I'm not rolling in money. Although it would be fun to do so. LOL.
I'll wait and see what other opinions I receive and then I'll let you boys know what I've decided to do. Thanks for all your help and it has helped me to decide.

[jh45gun]

Hey Hugo some thing else to bog down your mind buy the SF at 1400 and the Traynor at 400 which would be 1800 and you would have TWO amps and save 200 bucks over the cost of the blackface. LOL

[pchilson]

Hey Hugo,
Whatever you do you do it for you...hehehe
Price ranges are relative, we all have what we have.
There are plenty of people on here that have worlds of more experience than I.
To me, the choice in amps is dictated by your budget, its tone and the environment you will play it in. Like I said, for me the SCXD fits these three criteria the best of what I've tried to date. I've been through several different amps and have unloaded them all for one reason or another because they didn't hit on my 3 criteria for an amp. Just don't buy something that is way to loud for your environment. I tried an Epiphone Valve Junior, took it back the next day cause you had to turn it up to sound good. I had a Pro Junior that was the same way. They sound great but at higher volumes than I can generally use.
I don't know if that is a consideration for you but keep it in mind when choosing.

[Rumble]

Originally Posted by hugo

I need an amp. Anyway, then I started thinking "should I get an amp that I will use probably for good and will be a good investment most likely"? The thing is I could go out and buy an amp for 500 and not be happy with it or it may not be enough amp down the road. One thing I truly don't want, that is amps. I want an amp and only one. I just was wondering if buying an amp that is enough power at any time and it could be a worthwhile investment at the same time, is the way to go. To be honest, I don't want to spend 2 grand. Truly I don't but i want to make a smart move. I don't want an amp collection.

Hugo, I don't men to sound cynical, but every time most players, including myself, buy an amp we think, "This is the last amp I'll ever need." You're always going to want an amp that will fit every situation. But needs and preferences change over time. I started with a 1x12" Yamaha solid state that did what I needed to for many years; then I got a Marshall halfstack, then a 2x12" Blues Deville, and then finally a Vox AC15 (I had many buy-and-trade classic amps along the way). So I went from small; to very big; to big but not as big; and back to small.

My point is that while you don't want to collect amps and want the "one" that will do everything, if you continue to play you'll own a few along the way. Right now, since you're just learning to play, you're probably not ready for a Super Reverb. It's not a play-at-home amp. I would love one as a collector's item, but I'd rarely turn it on. It's just too much amp if you're not gigging regularly with drums, bass, and another guitarist.

Look for something that's either one 12" or two 10"s and between 15 and 40 watts. You'll be able to play at home (although you'd need a pedal to attenuate most 40-watters) and you'll have plenty of power to play with a drummer or bass player if the situation arises. Here are some amps that fall into that category: Princeton Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, AC15, Blues Deluxe, Deluxe Reverb, Marshall 1974x. Out of those, the AC15 and Blues Deluxe are the only ones with master volumes, which can be good if you try to avoid pedals like I do. There's a new Princeton Recording amp that's pretty cool (I'd pull the 10" and put in a 12") and a lot of people like the new Champs. A 90's 1x12 Pro Reverb may be good.

And don't spend over $600-700 on your first amp unless it's collectible. But you also want to get an amp that will hold its value, so avoid off-brand names and flavor-of-the-month boutique amps.

Shopping and trying them out is where half the fun is, but believe me, you don't need the "ultimate" amp as your first one. You can get a really nice, affordable one that will be exactly what you need now and fit the bill for most situations.

[hugo]

Rumble, best advice yet. Thanks I see what you mean. I appreciate all the help here. It's so hard when you're new to things. Hard to know which path to take? Thanks. Ill let ya know what I get when I get it.

[fenson]

Originally Posted by jh45gun

I would grab an old traynor I do not know why you think they sound so crappy Fenson they have a great reputation. I have a Mono Block II which is not even a tube amp and it is a fantastic amp I would never get rid of it.

I think they sound crappy compared to Tweed and BF fenders I have played most when they first came out , and band members had several different models with the Custom special with 8x10 cab. being the only one I liked. Mono blocks not to bad for a bass amp IMO but its no ampeg svt. All my comements on the Traynor stuff is IMO and experenice. Heck I liked Garrnet stuff better than Petes stuff, And I am Canadian born and raised in Toronto , had dealings with Long & Mcquades when they only had 1 store, talked to Pete when he was only their repair guy.Would love to say sure get a Traynor man they are the best. point is I perfer Fender and one of my favs. is the Super Rev. more tone than what any Traynor can offer and why better Reverb sound.

[fenson]

Originally Posted by hugo