4x8" Speaker Cabinet...Anyone?

[LarryM]

Originally Posted by spider bishop

Traynor here in Canada made an amp called the "Studio Mate" for most of the 70's.
25 watts, 4x8 with reverb and trem. If memory serves it was just a standard "GuitarMate" with a different cabinet. My 1971 Guitar Mate is still in service, original speaker and all!

I had one - the 4x8 sounded great. Weber makes a few good 8" speakers -
8" Blue Pups are only $35.00 - $45.00 for alnico.
Go for it!

[backsideslappy]

Had a 4 x 8 in my old Hartke Piggyback 60w hybrid. Playing in a band it was great, as long as there was a bass player with a decent rig to pump up the bottom end.

[Northerntele]

Originally Posted by backsideslappy

Had a 4 x 8 in my old Hartke Piggyback 60w hybrid. Playing in a band it was great, as long as there was a bass player with a decent rig to pump up the bottom end.

Like this?


I've always wanted to try one but the price is way out for me and they seem a bit hifi. They make guitar amps too but this particular cab is WAAY more impressive

[backsideslappy]

casual 1050w....guessing the hartke might struggle to be heard through that.

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by Northerntele

Like this?


I've always wanted to try one but the price is way out for me and they seem a bit hifi. They make guitar amps too but this particular cab is WAAY more impressive

21 speaker good, 32 speakers (and rated at 3200W) better!

[mrz80]

It's been asserted that I'm crazy, but I'm going for it. I picked up 8 of whatever half decent 8" speaker Parts Express had on sale this month. Soon as they get here I'm gonna put together a pair of 4x8 cabs, grab an extra stereo amp, and run my GT-8 straight in. If this pans out, my big Fender will be going byebye!

[psycom]

UPDATE

I'm still testing the WGS 8 inch speakers that I had custom wound to 16 ohm (12.7 actual). So far I'm really liking the sound of them! I had to mount them in a different cab as I waited for the real one to show. It was delayed as I changed designs on Mr. Rissi and he had to start over. He's just lovin me for that too. Like he's not busy enough as it is.

Cab was delayed. My fault for changing designs. However it is being shipped this week and then I can give you feedback on the sealed 4x8 in a couple more weeks.

Right now I'm running basically a front ported design and an oddity cab I made work. Even so it sounds really really good. The WGS speakers are well made and they are a FANTASTIC company to work with. Reviews I've read ALL have been positive. So if you're looking for USA made speakers that you may like better than some of the actual English produced Clestions I'd give them a serious look.

Wayne is I believe the owner of "Warehouse Guitar Speakers" www.wgs4.com and he came from CTS. Do your research and you'll notice CTS & Fender go way back. I'm not sure of his relationship with CTS but if you look at WGS website you'll notice they are in the old CTS building. Could this ALL be Wayne? Made me wonder.

My conversations with him have been short and to the point. He's a business man and not into idle chat. I'll go into left field tangents if you let me. So I never got to ask what may be none of my business anyway.

What I can say with certainty is his products are well made, the company will listen to your needs and in my case tweaked to my desires. Try that with Eminence. Minimum of a 50 piece order and that can easily be 50 mistakes. WGS has been a blessing for me.

Also, the lowest grade "America" voiced 12 inch I've tested has simple rocked. I'll be on these more this week and next week back to the 4x8 Risson cab. So far the quality and results have left me favorably impressed. And I've been around... longer than I care to admit thank you.

A side note to the 4x8 cabs: I have another design in the works that is a secret. May take a month or maybe a year... we don't know. But when it arrives it'll be worthy of the RISSON name and be like no other. Do wish me luck on this.

Thank you. Hope this helps someone.

Rich

[psycom]

Time marches on and progress has been made. Liked the WGS speakers but didn't fit the bill. We ended up developing our own line and are being tested now.

We'll have a couple different grades but the engineer I have standards are so high his "D" would be a B by another company. We have two out now that sound spectacular. Totally tweakable custom builds. Hemp cone from his own recipe. All I can say it is smooth, punchy, no spikes and can take serious power.

He folded one in half doing a test. man is a mad scientist. 2500 watts into an 8 inch was asking for trouble don't you think?

Problems have been getting ALL USA parts. Did you know China "cuts" their hemp with Bulls**t to cut corners? That surprised me.

I've been at this daily since January 2011 and feel we'll have our units available via Risson Amplifiers and maybe Ceriatone too before Christmas. 10's and 12's etc. not a problem. Making that killer 8 has been a mission.

Rich Puncsak
Risson Amplifers

[notchfox]

There's a lot of praise for Charlie Parker and his Bobcat and Fatcat 8 inch speakers here on the Gear Page forum:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...9#post11601929

His "Guitar CPR" shop is in Fairmont, West Virginia. A friend of mine heard one of the Bobcat models and was duly impressed- for harp. He just doesn't want to spring for 4 of them since he got laid off 2 years ago. But other posts in the forum posts suggest these might be really good for guitar. I think he pretty much makes/specs his own stuff as a one man band. One of the remaining few .....

[banjohabit]

Originally Posted by BradKM

Sam Ash sells a Hartke half-stack that features a 4x8 cab.

They previously sold the same rig under the "Guitar Research" label.

I've tried those cabs with a few different heads and they sound pretty good. I'm sure one loaded with quality speakers would be even better.

i've got one sitting in the room. never tried it with anything but the
'guitar research" head, it's a tight, fairly thick sound. not marshall but "marshally". too thick for me, i like my twang twangy.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by marshman

A 4x8 tweed covered mini-bassman with Princeton or 5E3 guts would be pretty cool...but I think I'd rather have the same in a 1x15...

hmmmm--same cabinet, 2 different baffles, 2 different chassis...mix and match depending on the gig!

I want to make a mini Bassman, now I need one for a 4 x 8 cabinet. I am tweeking an amp design I am working on and have been using a couple of different WGS speakers to hear what it sounds like. Dirty I have various sounds to choose from but I am having the hardest time with the clean. Then I brought my guitar up and plugged it into a practice cabinet I made with a SS amp and a 8" PA speaker, the kind they use for paging in schools and other commercial environments. For cleans at bedroom volumes it is oh so nice. Wondering what four would sound like, and having a bunch that they ripped out at work for renovations...

Shame I have enough projects on the go right now, but this winter I will make a cabinet with four in it. Would go good with my 20w 6V6 Bassman I want to build.

[psycom]

Originally Posted by notchfox

There's a lot of praise for Charlie Parker and his Bobcat and Fatcat 8 inch speakers here on the Gear Page forum:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...9#post11601929

His "Guitar CPR" shop is in Fairmont, West Virginia. A friend of mine heard one of the Bobcat models and was duly impressed- for harp. He just doesn't want to spring for 4 of them since he got laid off 2 years ago. But other posts in the forum posts suggest these might be really good for guitar. I think he pretty much makes/specs his own stuff as a one man band. One of the remaining few .....

Hey thanks! A local musician told me about his stuff but I'd forgotten his name. :( I appreciate the update and link. I'd bet these two guys would be amazing together.

I'm not in a position to let out the name of our developer yet but when I do many of you will recognize it. Another one of those "born and raised" on speakers like my buddy at "Loud Button" except he's was raised on tubes.

Always open for suggestions, hints tips and maybe someone to run one of these threw the ringer and get an objective opinion. It's like a song... you'll never hear your own song like others do.

Rich

[mrz80]

I've hit a stopping point on my current guitar projects, so let's switch from input to output!

Got the materials together and cut to size for the first of two 4x8 cabs. 3/4 oak plywood, and 3/4 pine cleats. 8 inexpensive 8" speakers from Parts Express. The goal is to have two cabs so I can run my guitar rig at church in stereo. If it all works out well enough, I'll probably build a second pair so I can have the same setup at home.


Check the layout first to make sure my math wasn't off and the speakers'll fit, then cut the holes in the baffle.


Not bad for freehand with a jigsaw!


Getting the cabinet put together with glue-n-screws.


Routing the insets for the fold out handles. After the routs are done, I'll cut along the inside edges with the jigsaw.


And here we are so far. Cabinet's ready to finish. I'm going to paint the back and sides black, and stain the baffle board. Then it's mount the speakers, wire'em up, and start playing with stuffing.

[FenderLover]

What are you driving these with?

Are you going to give the open back a shot before sealing it up?

Just curious - this has been on my list for a while too.

[CoolBlueGlow]

I have gathered up some ceramic magnet 8's for a similar project. Based on certain initial tests, I think it is wise to decrease the cabinet volume perhaps rather smaller that Trev 333's close the back and push it with about a 30 watt amp. Just my opinion.

CBG

[mrz80]

Originally Posted by FenderLover

What are you driving these with?

Are you going to give the open back a shot before sealing it up?

Just curious - this has been on my list for a while too.

I'll prob. give open back a listen. The back's going to be screwed on so if I ever change my mind I can pull it off and pull the polyfil out. :)

[Joe-Bob]

Open or closed in a church setting will be down to personal preference, but I would go with at least a partial open back setup for that situation.

BTW -- What speakers did you get?

[mrz80]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Open or closed in a church setting will be down to personal preference, but I would go with at least a partial open back setup for that situation.

BTW -- What speakers did you get?

8x GRS 8PF-8 8" Paper Cone Foam Surround Woofer from Parts Express. They were on sale for $7.50 each. Maybe no great shakes as guitar speakers, but we'll see. If they turn out to be duds, I can always make 2way bookshelf speakers out of 'em for my kids. :)

[Joe-Bob]

Thanks. I looked, and they have good deals on Peavey 8" speakers.

Unsolicited suggestion -- Since you're making 2 cabs anyway, make one of each type of back panel (open, closed). That way, you can do a direct A/B comparison on the sound. Careful though, you just might end up with 2 back panels for each cab.

[StephaninMelb]

If you bought Selenium 8PW3-SLF at Parts Express it should be fine. The specs are actually better than most 8" guitar speakers,which for the most part have shocking specs.

Guitar Speaker Specs
75 Hz — 5 kHz

For guitar speakers it is desirable to have a top-end around 6 kHz to handle harmonics

Low-end is 75 Hz because low E of a standard-tuned guitar is 82.47 Hz
4-string Bass guitar E1 -- 41.204 Hz, with drop C# tuning -- 35 Hz
5 & 6 string bass guitar B0 -- 30.868 Hz

The lowest frequency a speaker can reproduce is called Resonant Frequency or technically (fs)

8" guitar speakers typically have a lower sensitivity rating that 10" & 12" guitar speakers (for example the Celestion Gold 12" has a sensitivity rating of 100dB, whereas most 8" guitar speakers SPL is in 92-96dB range. Using 8" speakers with SPL rating of 92 dB it will take eight speakers to match the sound volume level of a single Celestion Gold 12".

1 x 8" speaker with SPL 92 dB
2 x 8" speakers with SPL 92 dB = 95 dB total
4 x 8" speakers with SPL 92 dB = 98 dB total (2 dB under a 12" single or 66% less volume)
8 x 8" with SPL 92 dB = 101 dB total (33% more volume than a single 12")

Now if we select an 8" speaker rated at 96 dB (pretty good for an 8")

1 x 8" speaker with SPL 96 dB
2 x 8" speakers with SPL 96 db = 99 dB (1 dB under a single 12" or 33% less volume)
4 x 8" speakers with SPL 96 dB = 102 dB (2 dB over a 12" single or 66% more volume)

Now compared to a Celestion G12M 12" Greenback which rates at SPL 96 dB and costs around $130. A single Audio Nirvana Standard 8 rates at SPL 96 dB and costs around $64. It has matched the G12M for sound volume.


Every additional 3dB SPL (decibels of Sound Pressure Level - the true indicator of volume) doubles the apparent volume of a sound. Therefore a speaker rated at 97dB SPL will be "twice as loud" as a speaker rated at 94dB SPL and half as loud as one rated at 100dB SPL (all common ratings for guitar speakers). You can make an amp louder or quieter just by changing the speaker to one with a greater or lesser sensitivity. You get the most volume out of your amp by buying the highest rated speaker you can afford. This is also the cheapest way to maximize sound volume. The alternative is to disregard speaker SPL and sink more money into a more powerful amp.

As a rule of thumb doubling the number of speakers adds 3 dB, which doubles the volume. Note that an inefficient pair of 8 / 10 / 12 inch of guitar speakers with 3 dB less in SPL compared to a higher rated 2 x 12 is equal to only a single better quality speaker. With the less efficient cab (rated 3 dB lower SPL) you are carrying around one speaker of "dead wood" in a 2 x 12 or two speakers of "dead wood" with a 4 x 12. A 2 x 12 with high SPL rated speakers can be as loud as a 4 x 12 with average speakers. When there is an SPL difference greater than 3 dB the advantage increases.

Excursion Limit or Xmax
Quite simply this is the range the coil can move without leaving the magnet (blown speaker). Excursion limit is the Xmax figure and measured in mm. The total travel is double the Xmax. 0.8mm Xmax is OK for a guitar speaker and will support a low E note. For bass guitar or full-range PA the Xmax should be at least 4mm

Alternative are "full range" 8" drivers with high Xmax - these can cost as high as $400/each, but there are some decent ones, for example:

Audio Nirvana Standard 8 $64
Audio Nirvana Super 8 $79

Budget 8"
Selenium 8PW3-SLF ($43 @ partsexpress.com)

This is a mid-range driver, but the high-end is 1 kHz higher than a guitar speaker at 7 kHz and the 70 Hz low end covers low E. The issue with this speaker is it has a low SPL rating of 92 dB. So compared to a speaker of the same size with a 98 dB SPL it will only be 1/4 as loud.

Power handling: 125 watts RMS/175 watts max
• VCdia: 1-1/4"
• Voice coil inductance: .32 mH
• Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
• DC resistance: 6.48 ohms
• Frequency response: 70-8,000 Hz
• Magnet weight: 20 oz.
• Fs: 72 Hz
• SPL: 92 dB 1W/1m
• Vas: 1.02 cu. ft.
• Qms: 9.64
• Qes: 0.88
• Qts: 0.81
• Xmax: 2.35 mm
• Net weight: 4 lbs.
• Dimensions: Overall diameter: 8-1/8", Cutout diameter: 7-1/8", Depth: 3-3/8", Magnet diameter: 4-1/2", Magnet height: 1-1/16".