Gibson Goldtone Les Paul Jr (GA-5) & Epiphone Valve Jr (A/B'd)

[mistermullens]

Since the other thread has basically became a mod thread, I thought I'd give my A/B review here. Its my first and I hope it helps and answers some questions some of you may have. BTW, both amps were run into a 2x10 cab and don't have any mods. More below.

First off, I have had my Epi VJr head for over a year now and I run it through a 2x10 Hartke bass cab loaded with Eminence Ramrods. I'm using a JJ EL84 and a Tung Sol (High Gain) 12AX7 for tubes in the Epi and the GA-5 has its stock JJs. Normally I have a NOS Jan Philips 5751 in the Epi's preamp, but I couldn't get the damn thing back in after trying it in the GA-5. So here we go.

I plugged my '52 Partscaster straight into Input 1 and set the volume to a hair under 1:00. The '52 has a Nocaster bridge and a GFS Mean 90 in the neck. The cab really adds some bass to the sound compared to the stock 8 incher. IMO, its a perfectly nasty blues amp, and really does rock well. The cab allows for more volume and I think anyone could do a blues gig with this setup or by just using the amp stock. It cleans up very nicely when you change your pick attack. Its very articulate and I can tell a difference between a PCB amp and a PTP amp. IMO, it also sounds a lot like the 1960 Tweed Champ I played a couple of weeks ago. Now, how about that Epi?

As much as I hate to admit it, the Epi does sound similar to the GA-5. I used the same settings and cab on the Epi. I think part of the reason it sounded similar is the 12AX7 I used. I hadn't used the Tung Sol in the amp before and it really nastied it up. It actually sounded better than it has in a long time. For whatever reason, the Epi didn't sound as loud as the GA-5. I found myself wanting to turn up the volume, but resisted the temptation. The Epi also sounded darker than the GA-5. This is a common opinion of these amps.

This is a short review, but if I had to choose only one, I would go with the GA-5. I still like the Epi and would use it as a back up, but the GA-5 sounds like a 5w amp should sound like. The cleans are nice in the GA-5, and when turned up, sounds like a vintage amp. I don't think 5w amps are designed with cleans in mind. Definitely louder, and most importantly, has quite a bit more mojo than the Epi. Feel free to ask some questions as I'll probably be able to add more to the review that way.

[pchilson]

If the GA-5 was still fetching 7 bills would you still pick the Gibby?

[mistermullens]

That's a tough one. Probably not, but if it was closer to $500, I probably would. I always felt the amp was overpriced like the rest of Gibson's stuff. It was a steal at $270.

[Rob DiStefano]

Now go do the trio of basic GA-5 circuit mods and then do yer VJr/GA-5 shootout again.

[Walker]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

Now go do the trio of basic GA-5 circuit mods and then do yer VJr/GA-5 shootout again.

That's all well and good, but for a guy like me who would (maybe) only change the tubes, this is more relevant.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Walker

That's all well and good, but for a guy like me who would (maybe) only change the tubes, this is more relevant.

Sorry Walker, my post was a tongue-in-cheek barb aimed directly at Jonathon.

The GA-5 is SO much better an amp with the trio circuit mods - these mods are super simple to accomplish and all that's needed is a soldering iron, a small piece of wire for the jumper and a 47K 1/2w 5% $.20 resistor from Radio Shack. ANYONE who can solder can make these GA-5 mods, and the mods are just as easy to remove - I'm sure you can find someone to help ya. All tube amp precautions regarding the filter caps apply - but that should NOT be a roadblock for tweaking a GA-5, this is the easiest, most well thought out amp I've ever worked on. See the trio mod pics on the $299 Gibson amp thread.

[Gee]

Originally Posted by mistermullens

As much as I hate to admit it, the Epi does sound similar to the GA-5. I used the same settings and cab on the Epi. I think part of the reason it sounded similar is the 12AX7 I used. I hadn't used the Tung Sol in the amp before and it really nastied it up. It actually sounded better than it has in a long time. For whatever reason, the Epi didn't sound as loud as the GA-5. I found myself wanting to turn up the volume, but resisted the temptation. The Epi also sounded darker than the GA-5. This is a common opinion of these amps.

If your VJ is 1 year old then it cannot be the current version 3 VJ which has addressed the main issues with the previous VJ. In the version 3 VJ, Epi corrected some of the component values and replaced the output transformer with the correct one for the EL84. The version 3 is now a pretty well sorted out amp that will sound very very similar to the Ga-5. The VJ is tuned to produce more gain than the GA-5.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Gee

If your VJ is 1 year old then it cannot be the current version 3 VJ which has addressed the main issues with the previous VJ. In the version 3 VJ, Epi corrected some of the component values and replaced the output transformer with the correct one for the EL84. The version 3 is now a pretty well sorted out amp that will sound very very similar to the Ga-5. The VJ is tuned to produce more gain than the GA-5.

Unfortunately, the VJr is still pcb circuit board based, and in terms of both build and component quality the GA-5 is lots better. That said, the $299 GA-5 appears to be history ... too bad.

[Walker]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

Sorry Walker, my post was a tongue-in-cheek barb aimed directly at Jonathon.

The GA-5 is SO much better an amp with the trio circuit mods - these mods are super simple to accomplish and all that's needed is a soldering iron, a small piece of wire for the jumper and a 47K 1/2w 5% $.20 resistor from Radio Shack. ANYONE who can solder can make these GA-5 mods, and the mods are just as easy to remove - I'm sure you can find someone to help ya. All tube amp precautions regarding the filter caps apply - but that should NOT be a roadblock for tweaking a GA-5, this is the easiest, most well thought out amp I've ever worked on. See the trio mod pics on the $299 Gibson amp thread.

No problem Rob. I'm just wondering, for a guy like me who would only change the tubes and maybe the speaker, what the comparison between the two is.

I have an Epi Valve Jr combo and I don't really like it. I was going to go to my local GC and try to trade it in and get the Champ 600. I was tempted by the Gibson, but now that the $299 deal is over I'm not interested.

PS What would be some good replacement tubes for the Epi?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Walker

No problem Rob. I'm just wondering, for a guy like me who would only change the tubes and maybe the speaker, what the comparison between the two is.

Immense if yer talking about the modded GA-5 ... if not, the GA-5 is simply a better platform in terms of component and build quality (IF you paid $299!)

I have an Epi Valve Jr combo and I don't really like it. I was going to go to my local GC and try to trade it in and get the Champ 600. I was tempted by the Gibson, but now that the $299 deal is over I'm not interested.

I love small single ended tube amps and have owned or played through various vintage Fender, Gibson, Supro, Epi, Li'l Dawg, Holland, Victoria, Bad Cat, boutique one-off custom, etc, amps. The $299 deal on the GA-5 was the tube amp deal of the century (so far, heheh!) and that's why I bought two of 'em. My absolute faves are the Li'l Dawg Champster (Special) and the modded GA-5 ... the tone of each is different but glorious in their own right.

PS What would be some good replacement tubes for the Epi?

I'm not a tube maven. I use a few NOS flavors but mostly I prefer JJ's. Messing with tubes can be as time and money consuming as messing with pickups.

....

[Whisperer]

Rob, I dig all the excitement on these amps, but it really upsets me that in Canada it would have been almost double the cost.
I'm happy for you though!!!
It's a lousy feeling missing out on this little gem.

Oh , and still waiting for the sound samples from the modded and stock version!!

[Gee]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

Unfortunately, the VJr is still pcb circuit board based, and in terms of both build and component quality the GA-5 is lots better. That said, the $299 GA-5 appears to be history ... too bad.

Yeah. Absolutely, the GA-5 in terms of circuit component and circuit construction and also the transformers is very good indeed and when it was available at $299 was a really great buy. Those of you in the US had a great opportunity to get hold of these.

A few of them are stating to appear on eBay in the UK for £299 ($600) plus $100 shipping!

[G Man]

Originally Posted by Whisperer

Rob, I dig all the excitement on these amps, but it really upsets me that in Canada it would have been almost double the cost.
I'm happy for you though!!!
It's a lousy feeling missing out on this little gem.

Oh , and still waiting for the sound samples from the modded and stock version!!

There was no need to have missed out. It was still an outstanding bargain! After the dollar conversion, (which was close to par) the charges on my credit card (delivery included) were $359.66 Cdn. If I get charged anything further at time of delivery for customs or what not, big deal. In my books that works out to half of what it would have cost me a month ago for this sweet little gem.

G Man

[mistermullens]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

Now go do the trio of basic GA-5 circuit mods and then do yer VJr/GA-5 shootout again.

I am considering the mods. Been a few days since I looked at the other thread, and they do look relatively simple. We'll see. It does sound great as it is, and I'm curious to hear it with an alnico speaker.

[Whisperer]

Originally Posted by G Man

There was no need to have missed out. It was still an outstanding bargain! After the dollar conversion, (which was close to par) the charges on my credit card (delivery included) were $359.66 Cdn. If I get charged anything further at time of delivery for customs or what not, big deal. In my books that works out to half of what it would have cost me a month ago for this sweet little gem.

G Man

Gman, I hope the border charges are light. Let me know , ok?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by mistermullens

I am considering the mods. Been a few days since I looked at the other thread, and they do look relatively simple. We'll see. It does sound great as it is, and I'm curious to hear it with an alnico speaker.

Just do the trio of circuit mods. Forget messing with another speaker. The mods will cost you 5 minutes of time and pennies for a 47k resistor.

Just do the mod ...

[Walker]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

....
Originally Posted by Walker
No problem Rob. I'm just wondering, for a guy like me who would only change the tubes and maybe the speaker, what the comparison between the two is.

Immense if yer talking about the modded GA-5 ... if not, the GA-5 is simply a better platform in terms of component and build quality (IF you paid $299!)

I have an Epi Valve Jr combo and I don't really like it. I was going to go to my local GC and try to trade it in and get the Champ 600. I was tempted by the Gibson, but now that the $299 deal is over I'm not interested.

I love small single ended tube amps and have owned or played through various vintage Fender, Gibson, Supro, Epi, Li'l Dawg, Holland, Victoria, Bad Cat, boutique one-off custom, etc, amps. The $299 deal on the GA-5 was the tube amp deal of the century (so far, heheh!) and that's why I bought two of 'em. My absolute faves are the Li'l Dawg Champster (Special) and the modded GA-5 ... the tone of each is different but glorious in their own right.

PS What would be some good replacement tubes for the Epi?

I'm not a tube maven. I use a few NOS flavors but mostly I prefer JJ's. Messing with tubes can be as time and money consuming as messing with pickups.

Is it worth just changing the tubes in the Epi or is the change in sound minimal?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Walker

Is it worth just changing the tubes in the Epi or is the change in sound minimal?

My benchmark for tubes are JJ's and any amp added to my roster gets them if they aren't in there from the get-go, even if the existing tubes are NOS flavors. If you have spare tubes, as you should, it's worth swapping out tubes even the same brand ... like all guitars, not all tubes are exact clones.

Long winded way of saying - if ya got spares, try 'em, ain't gonna hurt.

[marshman]

Hey, Walker, here's what I did:

I started by comparing power tubes. I had:
--the stock Sovtek
--a new JJ
--old (maybe NOS, maybe not, but still functioning) TungSol, RCA and something "Made in England".

Ended up with the TungSol--it sounded the best.

I then turned to the pre-amp tube.
--stock Sovtek
--new JJ 83S and 12AT7
--RCA 12AX7 and AU7.
--GE 5751
--Mesa/chinese 12AX7

Ended up with the RCA 12AU7. Though it sounded a lot like the RCA 12AX7 (big shock, eh?), I was able to set the volume knob much higher in it's range, which I felt gave me more of a balance between preamp gain and powertube overdrive. I'm not a huge distortion cat to begin with, so I liked the tone better that way. I am still hoping to get a nice A/NOS 12AY7, though, and give it a go.

Might be worth knowing that my VJr is a highly modded version 1, though the speaker and trannies are still stock. All my old production tubes were acquired untested at a hamfest for less than 4 bucks each EXCEPT the 5751.

[Walker]

Originally Posted by marshman

Hey, Walker, here's what I did:

I started by comparing power tubes. I had:
--the stock Sovtek
--a new JJ
--old (maybe NOS, maybe not, but still functioning) TungSol, RCA and something "Made in England".

Ended up with the TungSol--it sounded the best.

I then turned to the pre-amp tube.
--stock Sovtek
--new JJ 83S and 12AT7
--RCA 12AX7 and AU7.
--GE 5751
--Mesa/chinese 12AX7

Ended up with the RCA 12AU7. Though it sounded a lot like the RCA 12AX7 (big shock, eh?), I was able to set the volume knob much higher in it's range, which I felt gave me more of a balance between preamp gain and powertube overdrive. I'm not a huge distortion cat to begin with, so I liked the tone better that way. I am still hoping to get a nice A/NOS 12AY7, though, and give it a go.

Might be worth knowing that my VJr is a highly modded version 1, though the speaker and trannies are still stock. All my old production tubes were acquired untested at a hamfest for less than 4 bucks each EXCEPT the 5751.

Thanks marshman. Now, after all the changes, how would you describe the sound?

[G Man]

Originally Posted by Whisperer

Gman, I hope the border charges are light. Let me know , ok?

I got it today! Here's the breakdown:

Customs: $14.58
GST: $15.31
PST: $24.49
RODFEE?: $10.00
GST: 0.50

Total Due CDN to FedEx driver: $64.88.

Plus the $359.66 gives me $424.54 total invested.

I'm o.k. with that!

[Whisperer]

Wow!! That's not too bad at all! No shipping fees ?