DR OT Vs. 5e3 OT

[TelZilla]

Hey all-

First of all, this is an honest question. I'm not trying to start some flame war or whatever. So let's all try to get along.

Johnny Crash's 5e3 thread (I'm with ya, bro) mentioned a DR OT as distinct from a 5e3 OT.

Now, I'm a moron, but that's news to me. I've got a mongrel homebuild that I'm planning on 5e3-ifying (call it whatever you want, and please don't get this thread closed), and I want to understand the differences.

Here's the details on the amp as it's now configured:

• Front end from a Brown Vibroverb (6G16 circuit)
• Power section from a BFDR (2 x 6V6s, fixed adjustable bias)
• 2 10 inch alnico Weber drivers (10A125-O)

So, my plan is to rewire it to a traditional 5e3 circuit, including traditional bias scheme. I'll be using two 10's (one of the 10A125-Os and a Weber Alnico Blue pup). I'm keeping the PT and OT from the current amp. I'll eventually use the verb and trem parts for an outboard unit or something.

This is all based on parts from Weber. Ted uses the same OT for his 5e3 kit and his BFDR (which he calls the 6A20). It's this one. This led me to believe that they were pretty much the same in the old Fenders.

So what are the differences between the two? What kind of differences am I likely to notice? Can anybody point me to an example of a "real" BFDR and a "real" 5e3 OT?

[dangelico603]

I was wondering the same thing because most of the places I've seen list the transformers for "Deluxe" and "Deluxe Reverb" as the same.

[Guitarslinger1]

Many places sell the the same transformer for both. They are pretty much the same thing (2 x 6V6, into 8 ohms, 15 - 20 watts or so).

But, in the day, the tweed transformers were made by Triad, and the BF were made by Schumacher and other companies. The manufacturing methods were likely different.

Some will claim they can hear the differences, and some will claim it makes no difference. I guess tone is in the ear of the beholder.

Personally, I would use a Mercury FTDO-59, as I know it's a winner from past experience. But that's not to say that you couldn't rock your socks off with that Weber, or a Heybor, or a "mystery" 2 x 6V6 OT from thEbay.

[PhatTele]

I didn't know that they were different. If I were going to build a 5E3, a Deluxe Reverb OT would work just fine for me. The Mercury stuff I've used always sounds great and I use their stuff for restoration work. However, if it's a funky project amp, then I usually go with the bigger power and output transformers that David Allen sells (Allen Amplification).

[TelZilla]

I'm pretty much planning on going with the current OT. Especially if the other options are $$$$, like the Merc.

I would like to mimic the volume and headroom characteristics of a true 5e3. That's the real motivator behind this question.

[JDO]

something to keep in mind. i love ted and his offering of lower priced kits to help fill that niche in the market... but his kits aren't exactly reproductions. i think the sound is there, but he uses the same PT for his deluxes as he does for the 18watter. he has a different voltage tap and i'm sure the tone is just about there, but they aren't exact is my point. that's not a slam, it's just the truth. i've bought many things from weber and plan to in the future. but that would explain his use of the same OT.

personally, although i know there's a difference i haven't met anyone who sitting in an audience listening to a full band could pick out if someone used a specific tranny... if it was under sized or oversized... did they use metal film, carbon film or carbon comp resistors... did they use polyester or polypropylene caps... 16 ohm tap or 4 ohm tap. the amp is the sum of all it's parts and i think side by side you can hear little differences if you have good ears and know what to listen for. but for the average person in the average situation, you won't notice. the circuit and the little tweaks to it are the main things that come into play after the player and the speaker.

[JohnnyCrash]

Impedance (fixed biased 6V6's run at 6.6k, cathode biased run at 8k) and wattage differences (larger core, etc).

The Princetons and tweed Deluxe often use the same spec OT... a DR with a 5E3 Ot would break up much sooner and run with a slightly bigger impedance mismatch (no speaker is ever exactly the stated ohms, and no OT/tubes ever run in exact spec'ed impedance anyway, that's why impedance is often called "nominal" it's a sort of average).

You can PM me (eMail may be better) if you want more details on OTs, primary/plate impedance, and secondary impedance. Otherwise, I think I'm taking a break from TDPRI for a while. Have FUN on your build and keep me posted!

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by specialty guitars

But, in the day, the tweed transformers were made by Triad, and the BF were made by Schumacher and other companies. The manufacturing methods were likely different.

Not only were they likely different, but both trannies were probably markedly inconsistent....

It's easy to forget that Leo wasn't using a Mercury Magnetics mentality back then - he was more concerned with getting more units for less $$.

IMO, I don't see the point of sweating details with a design that had such huge design tolerances that it becomes a moot point.

Really - it should come down to what you hear when you fire the amp up. Does it sound "specification correct," or does it just plain sound good? Obviously, everyone's answer to this question might be different. You just have to decide what your priority is.