KOA on a J-45; Good or bad?

Mr.Kane · August 7th, 2007, 05:56 PM

Just got myself a Gibson J-45 KOA Custom Shop, and just wondered what's so special with this particular type of wood? (KOA on the side and back.)
It's a beaut, but I'm just curious about this type of wood. Can't find a description of it anywhere...

zombywoof · August 7th, 2007, 08:00 PM

I do not have alot of experience with "new school" Gibsons.
Koa top guitars are kinda hard to come by and they sure are purty. That cherry sunburst Gibson did on one of their Koa edition J-45s was especially fine looking.

While a guitar's tone is the product of quite a few factors, I would say generally that Koa produces more midrange tone and therefore tends to sound a bit more mellow than the typical Gibson. I have heard folks say the Koa guitars produce a tone very similar to cherry bodied Martins. They are well balanced but seem to lack the chunky bass and which is characteristic of many older Gibsons. This is neither good or bad - just depends on what you are looking for.

64Strat · August 7th, 2007, 08:14 PM

Koa is VERY well balanced tonally and great recording guitars because they don't have the BOOMING bottom end.

Here's a few pics of my K20, all Koa front, back and sides. please ignore the dark blotch near the bottom, that's my reflection in taking the pictures.

Wally · August 7th, 2007, 09:00 PM

Koa is a species of mahogany and has similar tonal qualities....and please consider that no two pieces of any wood even of the same species, stand or maybe even tree sounds the same.
The following is an interesting story about a Koa guitar...front,back, and sides. Names are withheld to protect feelings. I once did a setup on a beautiful all-Koa dreadnaught guitar. The action came in just fine. The intonation was great. AS I was playing a bit on the guitar, my ear caught something that was not pleasing. I started listening in earnest and was trying to figure out just what was going on. There was an unpleasant sourness to the notes...any and all notes. I put the guitar back on the bench rest and starting picking notes and just looked at the top of the guitar. My ears guided my eyes' focus to a spot on the lower treble side bout just inside where the lower x-brace was. I put my finger on the spot and the sourness was gone. Release it and the sourness returned. I don't see/hear many sour tops, but this was one. IT did not matter what note was being played, the top was creating harmonics that were out of tune with what was being played. I have heard of sour tops before...I just don't hear many of them. The area of a square half inch coudl be 'stopped' vibrationally speaking and the problem was no more. All guitars are definitely not created equally.

64Strat · August 8th, 2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Koa is a species of mahogany and has similar tonal qualities....and please consider that no two pieces of any wood even of the same species, stand or maybe even tree sounds the same.
The following is an interesting story about a Koa guitar...front,back, and sides. Names are withheld to protect feelings. I once did a setup on a beautiful all-Koa dreadnaught guitar. The action came in just fine. The intonation was great. AS I was playing a bit on the guitar, my ear caught something that was not pleasing. I started listening in earnest and was trying to figure out just what was going on. There was an unpleasant sourness to the notes...any and all notes. I put the guitar back on the bench rest and starting picking notes and just looked at the top of the guitar. My ears guided my eyes' focus to a spot on the lower treble side bout just inside where the lower x-brace was. I put my finger on the spot and the sourness was gone. Release it and the sourness returned. I don't see/hear many sour tops, but this was one. IT did not matter what note was being played, the top was creating harmonics that were out of tune with what was being played. I have heard of sour tops before...I just don't hear many of them. The area of a square half inch coudl be 'stopped' vibrationally speaking and the problem was no more. All guitars are definitely not created equally.

interesting story, not sure it is limited to Koa's though. Every time I shop for a acoustic, I play as many of the same model as possible, hopefully in the same store and A/B them one after another. It's amazing just the difference between same model guitars.

JohnSS · August 8th, 2007, 08:54 AM

Koa is a beautiful tonewood found primarily in Hawaii. Played the Taylor K65 12 String and it was gorgeously lush sounding. James Goodall uses quite a bit of koa (he's based in Maui) and Koa pops up on occasion on custom Taylors, Gibsons, and Alvarez-Yairis. To me it sounds like a cross between Mahogany and Rosewood.

Wally · August 8th, 2007, 09:14 AM

64STrat, you are correct. I am sure that Koa is not the only tonewood that can produce the situation that I encountered. I have worked on quite a number of Koa guitars, and that one is the only one that exhibited that sour production. With any wood, one knows what is going to transpire only after the guitar is put together. Sour tops are a rarity, I am sure, and the type of wood is not restricted to any one species.

Stubee · August 8th, 2007, 09:18 AM

They are beautiful for sure, and all the ones I've played sounded good. I kinda like "thump" in flattops and never found a Koa one that had quite what I was looking for, so I have spruce topped flattops, but that's just a personal thing. "Thump" is actually kinda a detriment for recording and miking and such. Good Koa pieces should be great performing & recording guitars.

Regarding tone woods, I agree with what's said above on differences between guitars, woods, etc. Guitars (especially flattops) are like snowflakes, no two alike.

For an interesting discussion on general characteristics of woods, do a google search on "tone woods" or "tonewoods". I had a link to a luthier supply company or luthier piece with that title that gave a nice description of mahogany vs. RW and such but can't find it.

64Strat · August 8th, 2007, 10:10 AM

this link has good tonewood descriptions.....
http://www.pantheonguitars.com/tonewoods.htm

I had a local luthier build me a killer 12 string last year, beautiful Rosewood back and sides with old growth Sitka soundboard with incredible silking figure. It's his current Featured Guitar if you follow the link below, click on Gallery, then click on Featured Guitar. This guitar is powerful to say the least! From the very resonant bottom to fantastic ringing on the top, chimey! This is the first custom acoustic I've had built and it was a blast to go through the process and select my own tonewoods through tap testing and visual inspection. Then the designing of the guitar features, like the inlay and selection of every detail. Highly recommended!!
http://www.chelsvig.com/

Mr.Kane · August 8th, 2007, 05:11 PM

..to put in a post on this forum! Love the expertise, and I always get replies. Thanks again, and I'll put in some pic's if anyone is interested..?

64Strat · August 8th, 2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kane

..to put in a post on this forum! Love the expertise, and I always get replies. Thanks again, and I'll put in some pic's if anyone is interested..?

by all means post pictures!

Mr.Kane · August 9th, 2007, 05:29 AM

Here she is:
http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13155/32228.jpg

http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13155/32229.jpg

64Strat · August 9th, 2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kane

Here she is:
http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13155/32228.jpg

http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13155/32229.jpg

wow! that's a beauty!

can you post pictures of the whole back?

Mr.Kane · August 9th, 2007, 11:46 AM

Here's the backside. Kinda difficult to get the 100% correct color, but it's pretty close..
Enjoy

http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13163/32268.jpg

Wally · August 9th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Knocked out Koa, Citizen. The bookmatched back could be a Georgia O'Keefe art piece, eh? Gives a new meaning to 'guitar porn'?

Mr.Kane · August 9th, 2007, 01:03 PM

Oh, you dirty man!

Well, now I see it...hmmm..I'll be gentle with her from now on..
She also got a very open sound....

64Strat · August 9th, 2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kane

Here's the backside. Kinda difficult to get the 100% correct color, but it's pretty close..
Enjoy

http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13163/32268.jpg

yes, I understand. My pictures above of my K-20 do not do it justice.

Wally · August 9th, 2007, 01:42 PM

Yeah, I am an innocent...or was...so Georgia O'Keefe's work always gave me a little blush when I was young....later on I thought her work was simply beautiful.

Stuco · August 9th, 2007, 01:48 PM

Koa is supposed to be a rich sounding tonewood with the clarity of mahogany and the overtones of rosewood and a special character all its own.

August 7th, 2007, 05:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mr.Kane TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Norway Age: 45 Posts: 77	KOA on a J-45; Good or bad? Just got myself a Gibson J-45 KOA Custom Shop, and just wondered what's so special with this particular type of wood? (KOA on the side and back.) It's a beaut, but I'm just curious about this type of wood. Can't find a description of it anywhere...

August 7th, 2007, 08:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
zombywoof Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Back in the Heartland Posts: 2,777 17 Photos	I do not have alot of experience with "new school" Gibsons. Koa top guitars are kinda hard to come by and they sure are purty. That cherry sunburst Gibson did on one of their Koa edition J-45s was especially fine looking. While a guitar's tone is the product of quite a few factors, I would say generally that Koa produces more midrange tone and therefore tends to sound a bit more mellow than the typical Gibson. I have heard folks say the Koa guitars produce a tone very similar to cherry bodied Martins. They are well balanced but seem to lack the chunky bass and which is characteristic of many older Gibsons. This is neither good or bad - just depends on what you are looking for. __________________ "I don't play a lot of fancy guitar. I don't want to play it. The kind of guitar I want to play is mean, mean licks." John Lee Hooker

August 8th, 2007, 05:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mr.Kane TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Norway Age: 45 Posts: 77	Always a pleasure.... ..to put in a post on this forum! Love the expertise, and I always get replies. Thanks again, and I'll put in some pic's if anyone is interested..?

August 9th, 2007, 05:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
Mr.Kane TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Norway Age: 45 Posts: 77	Pic's of my J-45 KOA Custom Shop Here she is: http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13155/32228.jpg http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13155/32229.jpg

August 9th, 2007, 11:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mr.Kane TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Norway Age: 45 Posts: 77	More pic's.. Here's the backside. Kinda difficult to get the 100% correct color, but it's pretty close.. Enjoy http://sportsfiske.nu/foto/arkiv/13163/32268.jpg

August 7th, 2007, 08:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
64Strat Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 592 43 Photos	Koa is VERY well balanced tonally and great recording guitars because they don't have the BOOMING bottom end. Here's a few pics of my K20, all Koa front, back and sides. please ignore the dark blotch near the bottom, that's my reflection in taking the pictures.

August 7th, 2007, 09:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,591	Koa is a species of mahogany and has similar tonal qualities....and please consider that no two pieces of any wood even of the same species, stand or maybe even tree sounds the same. The following is an interesting story about a Koa guitar...front,back, and sides. Names are withheld to protect feelings. I once did a setup on a beautiful all-Koa dreadnaught guitar. The action came in just fine. The intonation was great. AS I was playing a bit on the guitar, my ear caught something that was not pleasing. I started listening in earnest and was trying to figure out just what was going on. There was an unpleasant sourness to the notes...any and all notes. I put the guitar back on the bench rest and starting picking notes and just looked at the top of the guitar. My ears guided my eyes' focus to a spot on the lower treble side bout just inside where the lower x-brace was. I put my finger on the spot and the sourness was gone. Release it and the sourness returned. I don't see/hear many sour tops, but this was one. IT did not matter what note was being played, the top was creating harmonics that were out of tune with what was being played. I have heard of sour tops before...I just don't hear many of them. The area of a square half inch coudl be 'stopped' vibrationally speaking and the problem was no more. All guitars are definitely not created equally.

August 8th, 2007, 08:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
JohnSS Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 205	Koa is a beautiful tonewood found primarily in Hawaii. Played the Taylor K65 12 String and it was gorgeously lush sounding. James Goodall uses quite a bit of koa (he's based in Maui) and Koa pops up on occasion on custom Taylors, Gibsons, and Alvarez-Yairis. To me it sounds like a cross between Mahogany and Rosewood.

August 8th, 2007, 09:14 AM	#7 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,591	64STrat, you are correct. I am sure that Koa is not the only tonewood that can produce the situation that I encountered. I have worked on quite a number of Koa guitars, and that one is the only one that exhibited that sour production. With any wood, one knows what is going to transpire only after the guitar is put together. Sour tops are a rarity, I am sure, and the type of wood is not restricted to any one species.

August 8th, 2007, 09:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
Stubee Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mid-Michigan Age: 57 Posts: 420	They are beautiful for sure, and all the ones I've played sounded good. I kinda like "thump" in flattops and never found a Koa one that had quite what I was looking for, so I have spruce topped flattops, but that's just a personal thing. "Thump" is actually kinda a detriment for recording and miking and such. Good Koa pieces should be great performing & recording guitars. Regarding tone woods, I agree with what's said above on differences between guitars, woods, etc. Guitars (especially flattops) are like snowflakes, no two alike. For an interesting discussion on general characteristics of woods, do a google search on "tone woods" or "tonewoods". I had a link to a luthier supply company or luthier piece with that title that gave a nice description of mahogany vs. RW and such but can't find it.

August 8th, 2007, 10:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
64Strat Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 592 43 Photos	this link has good tonewood descriptions..... http://www.pantheonguitars.com/tonewoods.htm I had a local luthier build me a killer 12 string last year, beautiful Rosewood back and sides with old growth Sitka soundboard with incredible silking figure. It's his current Featured Guitar if you follow the link below, click on Gallery, then click on Featured Guitar. This guitar is powerful to say the least! From the very resonant bottom to fantastic ringing on the top, chimey! This is the first custom acoustic I've had built and it was a blast to go through the process and select my own tonewoods through tap testing and visual inspection. Then the designing of the guitar features, like the inlay and selection of every detail. Highly recommended!! http://www.chelsvig.com/

August 9th, 2007, 12:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,591	Knocked out Koa, Citizen. The bookmatched back could be a Georgia O'Keefe art piece, eh? Gives a new meaning to 'guitar porn'?

August 9th, 2007, 01:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mr.Kane TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Norway Age: 45 Posts: 77	Guitar porn?!! Oh, you dirty man! Well, now I see it...hmmm..I'll be gentle with her from now on.. She also got a very open sound....

August 9th, 2007, 01:42 PM	#18 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,591	Yeah, I am an innocent...or was...so Georgia O'Keefe's work always gave me a little blush when I was young....later on I thought her work was simply beautiful.

August 9th, 2007, 01:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
Stuco Friend of Leo's Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: GA Posts: 2,790	Koa is supposed to be a rich sounding tonewood with the clarity of mahogany and the overtones of rosewood and a special character all its own.