question on repaired tops

sandman72202 · July 19th, 2006, 11:58 AM

been looking at buying an acoustic. have found one that has a couple of cracks in the spruce top (solid top). they have been glued and repaired. the guitar has a couple of issues, needs a new nut and has some scratches. but otherwise its a very nice 30 yr old guitar thats a solid top and solid rosewood throughout that could go for a steal.
the finish problems, i never have understood why if the problems aren't all the way to the wood, why you can't just sand it down and redo it. i did it with an old beater i had and except for the areas that did go to the wood. it worked great. my concern is the top. it seems that if it was glued properly it should be more stable there than anywhere. and except for the aesthetic aspect, should be fine.
anyone have any experience repairing these things ?

Rob DiStefano · July 19th, 2006, 06:06 PM

Top cracks - if they were repaired properly, not a problem at all.

Finish - you *really* need to know what yer doing to properly refinish an acoustic guitar.

I'd evaluate any acoustic thisaway ....

playability - is the neck set at a proper angle that will allow a goodly range of action tweaking?

tone - does it sound nice (to you, the buyer)?

value - used purchase cost versus resale value.

sandman72202 · July 19th, 2006, 06:24 PM

well....because of the cracks..and the dings in the finish (which i think i can sand out and refinish...didn't seem that difficult to me) its selling at about 1/3 the normal value for these. i'm gonna check it out again and see.
it may come home with me.

Rob DiStefano · July 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM

You sound like you know what yer doing, good luck.

sandman72202 · July 19th, 2006, 08:40 PM

well....not really....but not scared to try.

Volvoguy · July 19th, 2006, 09:06 PM

The key here is what guitar is it?
Why would you refinish it? Dings and sratches are all part of a good ol' acoustic, and a refin will devalue it more than leaving it alone.

sandman72202 · July 20th, 2006, 01:51 AM

its an alvarez yairi dy52 that i have now bought. i got it for $230. solid spruce top that has acouple of repaired cracks. the back of the neck has some marks in it that go all the way to the wood, but i think i can sand and fix that. for some bizarre reason someone fitted it with a 12 string nut and the saddle is not original either. none of those things are too big a problem to deal with. i'm thinking i can put maybe a hundred into it and some elbow grease and end up with a fairly good guitar if i can get it set up right.
i'll post before and after pics when i'm done

ravindave_3600 · July 21st, 2006, 02:32 PM

Change the nut, string it up, then PLAY THAT THING! Doesn't sound like it needs another thing done to it.

sandman72202 · August 13th, 2006, 02:03 PM

well, i've gotten it in and started work on it. i've got a few pics here showing the cracks and the saddle and nut.
this looks like it was repaired by bob vila on crack. he really could have used norm here. the top was repaired with super glue, and they let it run and drip all over the place. the crack over the sound hole has a loose brace underneath that will have to be reglued. the nut is a twelve string nut that hangs over the neck some. the saddle is...believe it or not...a popsicle stick wedged in with pieces of metal. even with all this...the guitar sound good...not great...but its loud and projects well.
i took the nut off and cleaned of the neck. sanded it down smooth got off all the glue. then i dug out the popsicle stick and tried to clean out the slot. it will have to have a rosewood plug in there and be redone. i sanded down the top using 150 grit paper and when the glue was gone and it was sanded flat i worked it smooth with 220 the 400 and finally 600 paper. the luthier said he could buff most of this out. he told me if i go all the way to the wod on the top...don't worry about it just go ahead and get it smooth. he can take care of the rest. its at the luthiers now brace getting reglued, new nut and saddle and buffing the finish.
this is not going to be a show guitar, this is a player.
in the end...i paid $230 on the guitar with shipping. with new strings from the luthier its going to cost me another $130. ....did i save money on a nice sounding guitar......probably not. but it should be a nice sounding guitar when done and i saved a nice instrument from a twisted crackhead bob vila clone.
so.... i'm good with that

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52002.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52003.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52015.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52005.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52018.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52016.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52017.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52022.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52021.jpg

i will post pics of finished product when i get it back this week

sandman72202 · September 9th, 2006, 07:43 PM

Well, here is the finished product. I replaced the nut with bone and had the bridge repaired and fitted with a new bone saddle. The lower crack by the pickgaurd was ok, just needed to clean it up some and get the super glue off. The upper crack had a loose brace underneath so that had to be reglued. I sanded down all the areas where there were dripped super glue and cleaned up the glue on the cracks starting with 150 grit and working my way down with 200, 400 and finished it up with 600. Tim buffed it up after that and fitted it with some new D'Addario's.
Here are some of the finished pics

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52028.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52031.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52032.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52033.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52034.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52035.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52039.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52020.jpg

In the end I ended up paying about $350 for the finished product.
Did I save any money by buying an as is guitar ?.......probably not. Aesthetically this still looks pretty beat up. But it sounds extremely good. I've always like the feel of the yairi necks I've played. I sanded the neck on this down but there was still some finish on it when i got through. Feels real smooth. Tim, my luthier (buddy i used to throw darts with) has been working on guitars for more than 25 yrs. He says he's never heard of coral rosewood, but says that in the 80's when there was a ban on harvesting certain woods with most countries that Japan was going down to S. America and bringing back shiploads of Brazilian rosewood and thinks this is really a brazilian laminated rosewood back and sides. Might be as I tried to do a google search for coral rosewood and came up with only these guitars as a hit.
Oh yea....last pic is my fierce and loyal gaurd dog protecting me while I took the pics,,,,,just thought I would throw those in.
She deserves a little notoriety

Teletwang · September 12th, 2006, 10:12 AM

Ever think of applying another pickguard? ala Everly Bros. or Ritchie Havens. Seems it would cover most of that scar.

sandman72202 · September 12th, 2006, 07:00 PM

thought about it for a bit. but i'm gonna leave it as it is. plays and sounds good. it would still have the neck stain gone.....i'm fine with it. the more i play it, the more i like it. the necks on these are smaller and feel better than most necks i've found.
i'm happy

Rob DiStefano · September 12th, 2006, 08:15 PM

Pickguards can be like "tone overcoats", and stiffle the most important vibrating part of a flat top guitar - the top. Not as much an issue if yer gonna 'lectrify the box, though, but it can be critical to the natural acoustic tone. IMHO.

Stuco · September 12th, 2006, 08:27 PM

man you got a killer deal on that

July 19th, 2006, 11:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
sandman72202 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas, currently on walkabout Posts: 476	question on repaired tops been looking at buying an acoustic. have found one that has a couple of cracks in the spruce top (solid top). they have been glued and repaired. the guitar has a couple of issues, needs a new nut and has some scratches. but otherwise its a very nice 30 yr old guitar thats a solid top and solid rosewood throughout that could go for a steal. the finish problems, i never have understood why if the problems aren't all the way to the wood, why you can't just sand it down and redo it. i did it with an old beater i had and except for the areas that did go to the wood. it worked great. my concern is the top. it seems that if it was glued properly it should be more stable there than anywhere. and except for the aesthetic aspect, should be fine. anyone have any experience repairing these things ?

July 19th, 2006, 09:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
Volvoguy Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: North Vancouver, BC Posts: 401	The key here is what guitar is it? Why would you refinish it? Dings and sratches are all part of a good ol' acoustic, and a refin will devalue it more than leaving it alone. __________________ As of now, this is the oldest I've ever been.

July 21st, 2006, 02:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
ravindave_3600 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boise, USA Posts: 960	Change the nut, string it up, then PLAY THAT THING! Doesn't sound like it needs another thing done to it. __________________ Want my guitar to sound like BBQ tastes! check out the band at http://www.brightredtie.com

September 9th, 2006, 07:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
sandman72202 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas, currently on walkabout Posts: 476	repaired DY52 Well, here is the finished product. I replaced the nut with bone and had the bridge repaired and fitted with a new bone saddle. The lower crack by the pickgaurd was ok, just needed to clean it up some and get the super glue off. The upper crack had a loose brace underneath so that had to be reglued. I sanded down all the areas where there were dripped super glue and cleaned up the glue on the cracks starting with 150 grit and working my way down with 200, 400 and finished it up with 600. Tim buffed it up after that and fitted it with some new D'Addario's. Here are some of the finished pics http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52028.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52031.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52032.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52033.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52034.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52035.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52039.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52020.jpg In the end I ended up paying about $350 for the finished product. Did I save any money by buying an as is guitar ?.......probably not. Aesthetically this still looks pretty beat up. But it sounds extremely good. I've always like the feel of the yairi necks I've played. I sanded the neck on this down but there was still some finish on it when i got through. Feels real smooth. Tim, my luthier (buddy i used to throw darts with) has been working on guitars for more than 25 yrs. He says he's never heard of coral rosewood, but says that in the 80's when there was a ban on harvesting certain woods with most countries that Japan was going down to S. America and bringing back shiploads of Brazilian rosewood and thinks this is really a brazilian laminated rosewood back and sides. Might be as I tried to do a google search for coral rosewood and came up with only these guitars as a hit. Oh yea....last pic is my fierce and loyal gaurd dog protecting me while I took the pics,,,,,just thought I would throw those in. She deserves a little notoriety

July 19th, 2006, 06:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 63 Posts: 4,919	Top cracks - if they were repaired properly, not a problem at all. Finish - you really need to know what yer doing to properly refinish an acoustic guitar. I'd evaluate any acoustic thisaway .... playability - is the neck set at a proper angle that will allow a goodly range of action tweaking? tone - does it sound nice (to you, the buyer)? value - used purchase cost versus resale value.

July 19th, 2006, 06:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
sandman72202 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas, currently on walkabout Posts: 476	well....because of the cracks..and the dings in the finish (which i think i can sand out and refinish...didn't seem that difficult to me) its selling at about 1/3 the normal value for these. i'm gonna check it out again and see. it may come home with me.

July 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 63 Posts: 4,919	You sound like you know what yer doing, good luck.

July 19th, 2006, 08:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
sandman72202 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas, currently on walkabout Posts: 476	well....not really....but not scared to try.

July 20th, 2006, 01:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
sandman72202 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas, currently on walkabout Posts: 476	its an alvarez yairi dy52 that i have now bought. i got it for $230. solid spruce top that has acouple of repaired cracks. the back of the neck has some marks in it that go all the way to the wood, but i think i can sand and fix that. for some bizarre reason someone fitted it with a 12 string nut and the saddle is not original either. none of those things are too big a problem to deal with. i'm thinking i can put maybe a hundred into it and some elbow grease and end up with a fairly good guitar if i can get it set up right. i'll post before and after pics when i'm done

August 13th, 2006, 02:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
sandman72202 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas, currently on walkabout Posts: 476	well, i've gotten it in and started work on it. i've got a few pics here showing the cracks and the saddle and nut. this looks like it was repaired by bob vila on crack. he really could have used norm here. the top was repaired with super glue, and they let it run and drip all over the place. the crack over the sound hole has a loose brace underneath that will have to be reglued. the nut is a twelve string nut that hangs over the neck some. the saddle is...believe it or not...a popsicle stick wedged in with pieces of metal. even with all this...the guitar sound good...not great...but its loud and projects well. i took the nut off and cleaned of the neck. sanded it down smooth got off all the glue. then i dug out the popsicle stick and tried to clean out the slot. it will have to have a rosewood plug in there and be redone. i sanded down the top using 150 grit paper and when the glue was gone and it was sanded flat i worked it smooth with 220 the 400 and finally 600 paper. the luthier said he could buff most of this out. he told me if i go all the way to the wod on the top...don't worry about it just go ahead and get it smooth. he can take care of the rest. its at the luthiers now brace getting reglued, new nut and saddle and buffing the finish. this is not going to be a show guitar, this is a player. in the end...i paid $230 on the guitar with shipping. with new strings from the luthier its going to cost me another $130. ....did i save money on a nice sounding guitar......probably not. but it should be a nice sounding guitar when done and i saved a nice instrument from a twisted crackhead bob vila clone. so.... i'm good with that http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52002.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52003.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52015.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52005.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52018.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52016.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52017.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52022.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...iriDY52021.jpg i will post pics of finished product when i get it back this week

September 12th, 2006, 10:12 AM	#11 (permalink)
Teletwang Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Connecticut Age: 41 Posts: 1,275 1 Photos	Ever think of applying another pickguard? ala Everly Bros. or Ritchie Havens. Seems it would cover most of that scar.

September 12th, 2006, 07:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
sandman72202 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas, currently on walkabout Posts: 476	thought about it for a bit. but i'm gonna leave it as it is. plays and sounds good. it would still have the neck stain gone.....i'm fine with it. the more i play it, the more i like it. the necks on these are smaller and feel better than most necks i've found. i'm happy

September 12th, 2006, 08:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 63 Posts: 4,919	Pickguards can be like "tone overcoats", and stiffle the most important vibrating part of a flat top guitar - the top. Not as much an issue if yer gonna 'lectrify the box, though, but it can be critical to the natural acoustic tone. IMHO.

September 12th, 2006, 08:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
Stuco Friend of Leo's Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: GA Posts: 3,243	man you got a killer deal on that