Martin Questions

timmer · June 23rd, 2006, 03:59 PM

I currently have a Korean made Ovation GC-157 that I just love. After trying all sorts of acoustics at GC this one played and felt the best out of all of the acoustics there at any price. This was about 2 years ago.

I've been thinking about upgrading to a Martin for a while now but to be honest, all of the Martin's I have played at GC did not feel as good as my Ovation; although, they smelled much better and sounded more organic.

My questions are:

What do the different designations mean? D-45, D-15, OM, 000, etc... I know they must mean sizes or shapes but it's really confusing to me.

According to their website GC has a sale on the GC-MMV which is supposed to an exclusive model to them. Here is the info:

GC Exclusive

50% Off Rosewood Martin - Only At Guitar Center!
Martin GC-MMV Dreadnought Acoustic

• Solid Sitka spruce top, solid East Indian rosewood back & sides, nitro-cellulose gloss finish
• Mahogany neck, ebony fretboard
• Gold tuners, deluxe 19-ply rosette, white binding
• Dreadnought body, famous Martin X-bracing

Includes case

NOW ONLY: $1,199.99
(GC-MMV)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Musicians Friend also has a D-15 Custom Spruce and Mahagony for $700, here is the info:

Martin D-15 Custom Spruce and Mahogany Acoustic Guitar Features:

* Solid Sitka spruce top
* D1 A-frame bracing pattern
* Solid mahogany back and sides
* Modified low oval solid mahogany neck
* Mortise-and-tenon neck joint
* Indian rosewood fingerboard
* Solid Indian rosewood bridge
* Solid Indian rosewood head plate with raised gold foil decal
* Small dot position markers
* Inlaid single-ring rosette
* Tortoise top binding
* Tortoise pickguard
* Adjustable truss rod
* White Corian nut
* Satin finish
* 25-2/5" scale length
* 16" fingerboard radius
* 14 clear frets
* 20 frets total
* 1-11/16" width at nut

Does anyone have any thoughts on these? Is there a better place to buy a Martin? Should I look at other models?

I have about a grand to spend.

I should add, I do have one of the GC 20% off coupons.

Thanks,
Timmer

cdhaskett · June 23rd, 2006, 04:09 PM

why does an upgrade have to mean a martin? do whatever feels right. don't buy a guitar just for the name brand. i've played really really expensive guitars with brand names that didn't sound half as good as my 300 dollar alvarez.

just a few thoughts, don't much mean anything...but you get the point.

timmer · June 23rd, 2006, 05:17 PM

thanks for that reminder.

I got the CG-157 because it felt and played better than any other guitar there; even though there were more expensive models from the same MFR.

I think I still want a Martin though...

PK · June 24th, 2006, 09:35 PM

The Martin OOO is a parlor sized guitar. The "D" series are dreadnoughts. The D-15 is an all mahogany. The D-18 is mahogany side/back with solid spruce top. The D-28 & HD-28 are rosewood side/back with sitka spruce top, the "HD" is distinguished as the "herring bone" trim. Both the D-28 & HD-28 have pre-war scalloped bracing and project like a cannon. The reason an upgrade usually means a Martin is because Martins do indeed sound better. My HD-28 blows the competetion out of the water. Period. end of story. The HD-28 projects like a sparkling cannon. It's all subjective, but I've played my HD-28 side by side many good guitars and the HD-28 envelopes and buries them all. Once you buy a guitar, and if you take proper care of it, the few extra hundred you spend for the HD-28 is less than pennies per day. If you shop well on ebay you can get the D-28 or HD-28 for around $1,000. Good luck!

PK

timmer · June 24th, 2006, 10:33 PM

Thanks for the info PK. I went to GC to look at Martin models this afternoon but within minutes of me entering the store they lost power and kicked everyone out. It was as if someone were saying you don't need another guitar!

Oh well, I'll try again tomorrow...

Califiddler · June 25th, 2006, 01:12 AM

Actually, current HD28s have the scalloped bracing but current D28s do not - this info is on the Martin web site. This is the reason that HD28s project better than D28s and the reason that a lot of folks prefer HD28s to D28s.
I play a 1987 HD28 and love it, it's a terrific guitar, and yes, it's a cannon.

Of course, a cannon is great for things like bluegrass, but you don't always want a cannon. The smaller-body models, like 000, OM, etc. generally have better balance between bass, mid and treble and are thought of as better for fingerstyle. Then again, Elizabeth Cotton and Mississippi John Hurt used big dreadnoughts for fingerpicking.

Martin's web site is here: http://www.martinguitar.com

There is an unofficial Martin guitar forum here:
http://p082.ezboard.com/btheunofficialmartinguitarforum

You can probably find out all you want to know and more from these two sites.

Volvoguy · June 25th, 2006, 02:01 AM

The basic decoding of martin model numbers is as follows.

The Letter prefix is all about body size. D is dreadnought, OM and 000 are the same size, though OM's have a longer scale than 000. 00 is the next size down, followed by 0. There are some other tiny size, like 5's and such, but are not common at all.

The numbers are what style it is. 15 and 17's are all mahogony, 18 is spruce top with mahog back and size. Everything above that is rosewood unless otherwise specified. The higher the number, the fancier inlaid the guitar is.

There is a good explanation of this on the martin guitar site. Here it is!!!

timmer · June 26th, 2006, 12:43 AM

Thanks for all of the information and links!

I went back to GC today and played a few of the Martin's. They all felt and sounded very good but not so much better than my Ovation to justify the extra cost. The HD-28 was sure a looker though.

fungusyoung · June 26th, 2006, 04:02 PM

Maybe it's just me, but I've been continually underwhelmed by the playability of most of the Martins I've picked up in GC's. Then I go into a local shop (like Nazareth Music) and everything changes.

You're wise to play as many Martins as you can get your hands on to see if anything moves you. I'd suggest checking out some local shops down there as well to see if there are any differences from what you experienced at GC.

The D-15 is a great guitar with some options. They were all mahogany, but at least Musician's Friend has others options including a spruce top/mahog sides or spruce top/rosewood sides.

If you are looking in that price range, pick up a D-16GT or RGT. I think they are great guitars within the $1,000 range.

Mik · June 26th, 2006, 05:13 PM

I just received a Martin D-15 RW Custom , from Musicians Friend, all solid wood (rw back, sides, spruce top), excellent workmanship, no slop, sounds great, for ONLY $799 SHIPPED, including a very nice Martin case!

The string action is very comfortable.

No hype: a stunning bargain, highest quality for lowest dollars.

Mik

Volvoguy · June 26th, 2006, 05:15 PM

If you're seriously considering an HD-28, I wouldn't buy it until you've played the HD-28V. Miles ahead of the Standard version, and usually only sells for maybe $500 more. Search one down anyways, worth playing them. In my opinion, the best Dreadnought they currently make that's still in the "average person" price range.

PK · June 26th, 2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volvoguy

If you're seriously considering an HD-28, I wouldn't buy it until you've played the HD-28V. Miles ahead of the Standard version, and usually only sells for maybe $500 more. Search one down anyways, worth playing them. In my opinion, the best Dreadnought they currently make that's still in the "average person" price range.

I don't mean to start a controvery or flame war, but I don't like the HD-28V. It's fretboard is wider, and feels like a surfboard IMHO. Also, I don't think GC is the best place to shop for Martins. Check out www.elderly.com I also saw good prices on ebay for new HD-28's from sellers with perfect feedback. It is subjective, and since parting with our hard earned is a big decision, I think you should play as many guitars as you can.

goldtopper · June 27th, 2006, 01:11 PM

I play a Martin D40 and wouldn't trade it for anything. It's the lowest of the pimped out D size guitars with the abolone and gold etc. It's got scalloped bracing and blows every guitar out of the room, volume and tone wise. It's also a very effective banjo killer!
I play a lot of bluegrass festivals and was worried about taking this one out all the time, so I bought a D28 as a "beater". Had to get rid of it after a few months because, to my ears, it was so far below the tone and feel of the '40 I couldn't bear to play it. The new '28s have that crappy maccassar ebony, dyed darker, that feels too soft and I feel, affects tone. I like the rock hard black ebony on fretboards. Who knows, maybe my '28 was just a poor representation, but I sure didn't care for it.

GrayPlayer · June 27th, 2006, 01:31 PM

Check out the UMGF for anything Martin. www.umgf.com.
Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum.

JohnyyGuitar · June 27th, 2006, 01:50 PM

My 2 cents...
Let me start off by saying I own a couple martins amoung other guitars.
Playing guitars in a store can be very deceiving. If you are not familiar with playing and in particular owning a 'good' guitar it will probably be hard for you to judge guitars, especially in a store. I don't want to disagree with other in this post but, newer martins, D18,D28,HD28,and 'V's and 'GE's, etc. are not really in the same league as other high end guitars such as Collings, Goodall, etc. I'll skip the arguments why.
Anyway my point being, considering the high end Martins the low end ones aren't any great shakes.
Anyway a couple points.
> Try to play guitars in a quite store, or one with a guitar room, although quite places like that can make anything sound nice, it's better than trying to play in a noisey place.
> Be aware that if you sit down to play a guitar in a quite envirnment and just came from a noise place, you perception in hearing will be comprimised, liken to coming from a very light place into a dark place, it take a while for your sense to adjust.
> alot of how a guitar feels when you play it is in the setup, I feel that one can get use to any neck shape after owning it and playing it for a while, Martins like other guitars are not all equally setup when you grap one in the store, in particular the height of the strings at the nut is usually high and can vary between two of the same guitars sitting next to each other. So whenever you pick up a guitar, take you right finger and press down the low E string at the 1st of 2cd fret a couple times and note the distance to the fret, do it on a bunch of guitars you'll quickly be able to tell which ones are set low or high, the height of the strings at the nut has alot to do with how hard the guitar feels to play. Setting the nut height for the most part is not something done as routine factory setup, except on very high end guitars.
Second check the neck releif, it really can affect playability, take a capo put it on the first fret, with a right hand finger press down the low E at the last fret, take a left hand finger and press down the string on a couple frets in half the distance, start noticing the distance, it can be hard to judge and eyeball, but to much releif and even sometimes just a little to much can make a big difference in the guitars playability.
Also, the strings themselves of course will make the guitar sound dead, if you pick up a guitar and you notice the E and B plain strings are gritty and dirty, or the neck feels dirty, well the guitar is not going to feel of sound good, much more of a problem in the big stores with everyone playing them. As a side note, good guitars even sound good with dead strings, that's a sign of a good guitar.
If you flat pick or finger pick, you want to make sure the guitar is right for that and it is fit with the right gauge strings, a Dreadnaught guitar with 13 strings on it is just not going to make for a good finger picking experience, no matter how good of a guitar it is.
In the store play the high end guitars (not necessarily Martin) to get a feel for a good sounding guitar, if you have a dealer in your area that sells Collings, go there, the guitars will be setup precisely and 99 % of them will sound GREAT. The sound of a good guitar is hard to describe, so play them and get an ear for them, keeping in mind how the environment and your perception can play into it....have a certain lick or song that you play on each instrument so you have a consistent point to judge from. Be aware of your ability to play when you do try out the instrument, if you are not warmed up and feel comfortable, that won't help, you want to feel that your are giving your best to hear the instruments best.
Now armed with all that info, when you go pick guitars in your price range, you will be a much more imformed buyer.
If you are not in a rush to buy anything, consider it a project to educate yourself about what's out there and how the sound and play and why.
Also, guitars, really hearing them is an acquired skill, like wine tasting or whatever, you just don't sit down with a bunch go thru them and then know the difference, oh after awhile you do, but not a first.
How a guitar projects is hard tell playing by yourself, if you need the guitar to play with others, alot of guitars, Martins included, like the new D18,28s, including the scalloped ones contrary to what's been said in the post do not project well in an acoustic group setting, and I'm speaking from personal experience. I've seen more than a few pro-players go thru the new Martins, only to move on to something else (old martins can be a different story).
Finally how well a guitar plays, depending the amount of skill you have to push the guitar, has alot to do with its response, and that quality is very had to find in inexpensive guitars, it is not even found in a lot of high end new Martins.
Oh also consider, alot of the guitars in the 1k price range now have those flat finishes to keep the price down, those guitars really ding up fast, you can literally take you finger nail and without much pressure at all but a scratch in it, I have a D18 with an OK, just OK finish and in a couple years the finsih is coming of from my pick at the end of the pick guard....
Whew...all that being said, there are alot of guitars out there in the 1k range, and I have no personal experience with a lot of them but a few I would suggest that I feel are better than Martins in that range....try some Blueridge guitars, my friends $500 Blueridge beats my D18 hands down, even his own ex-D28, we'd laugh about, how could that cheap guitar out do a Martin, it did, for sure check them out....also I have friends that I respect their opions, say Taylors are nice. But I'd stay away from the Martins in the 1k and even above range, and I'm speaking as a D18 (not my only guitar) owner. It's not that they are junk, but I think you can do better. Of course I understand the, I want to own a Martin aspect, and when/if you re-sell, it is a 'Martin'
good luck
PS: if you can find a dealer, it would probably be a small one, who will let you take home instruments to try out, that's great and even worth paying more, and don't overlook used instruments.

Volvoguy · June 27th, 2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

I don't mean to start a controvery or flame war, but I don't like the HD-28V. It's fretboard is wider

No worries man! I actually like the V series BECAUSE the neck is wider. Although there are other differneces as well. THe forward shifted braces being one, lets the top vibrate more behind the bridge. I also hate the closed back tuners on the standard series, they make the guitar too headstock heavy in my mind. The more V-profile neck fits my hands better as well. But what do I know, eh?

As Johnny guitar was saying that there are other guitars out there that beat Martins, it's all personal preference, but seeing as the title of the thread was asking about Martins, I was talking about Martins. I personally wouldn't put down money on a Taylor again. I have a Brazilian 710 that is a beauty of a guitar, but I hate playing it. I'd search out some Santa Cruz, Collings, or anything that's Martin inspired.

As everyone has been saying though, try as many as you can, and one will jump out at you! Don't worry about the name, just worry about if it pleases you.

Bopcat · June 27th, 2006, 05:10 PM

Try a Gibson. I've always liked the Ovations (I've got a Legend 1777LX now). I've never liked Martins (had a 000-28). My favorite wooden acoustics are Gibsons (I've got a J-200 and a Rosewood J-45).

Maestro · June 28th, 2006, 01:49 PM

I'm a big fan of crafter guitars (don't know if you have them in the US) the higher series was made to compete with martins. They are great value and truely great guitars. The lower end series are very good. A lot of guitar stores here in holland carry a lot of crafters because they are so good for the money.

collinsman · June 28th, 2006, 06:04 PM

I think Martin are making some of the best guitars ever now, it really comes down to setup & maybe a bone nut. I've owned many high end acoustics, SC Tony Rice, Lowden Cedar top. Taylors and others, and now I just have a 04" D 18, that's all I need.

I think a D 15 would be a good guitar for blues, folk, but it doesn't have the volume of a D 18/28 type guitar. JMHO.. wouldn't work good in a jam setting.

timmer · June 29th, 2006, 12:43 AM

I'm still looking and I shouldn't really narrow myself to just one make or model. I'll keep trying them until one speaks to me.

I've learned a lot and I thank you!

CharlieO · June 29th, 2006, 04:27 PM

Timmer, don't forget that a Martin will generally sound better as it matures, which is probably not as true with an Ovation. You might think that a new Martin doesn't sound significantly better than your Ovation today, but if you compare them in 10, 20 or 30 years, you'll understand the value of owning the Martin (the same can be said for most other solid wood acoustic guitars). I have had my 00-18E for 37 years, and it's a better guitar now than when it was new.

It might be difficult to shop for older used Martin and other acoustics, but it's worth looking. If nothing else, play some older ones. That might help you to decide which new guitar you'd like to own for many years.

Bopcat · June 30th, 2006, 01:48 PM

I think a good wooden acoustic will sound better with time, but I don't think a mediocre wooden acoustic will always sound better. I had a 000-28 Martin I bought in 1985. It didn't sound very good, but it was a special order so I was stuck with it. A bone nut and saddle, a set up, and 15 years later it still didn't sound very good (sold it for what I paid for it). My oldest acoustic, a 1989 Gibson J-200, sounded great the day I bought it and continues to amaze me with it's gorgeous tone. I'd never buy an expensive acoustic that was mediocre sounding with the hope that it'll be good in ten years. If it doesn't sound good today it probably won't sound great later. If it sounds great now it may be fabulous later.

CharlieO · June 30th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bopcat

I think a good wooden acoustic will sound better with time, but I don't think a mediocre wooden acoustic will always sound better. I had a 000-28 Martin I bought in 1985. It didn't sound very good, but it was a special order so I was stuck with it. A bone nut and saddle, a set up, and 15 years later it still didn't sound very good (sold it for what I paid for it). My oldest acoustic, a 1989 Gibson J-200, sounded great the day I bought it and continues to amaze me with it's gorgeous tone. I'd never buy an expensive acoustic that was mediocre sounding with the hope that it'll be good in ten years. If it doesn't sound good today it probably won't sound great later. If it sounds great now it may be fabulous later.

You're right, there is no guarantee that a poor sounding guitar will get better with age. Still, a decent guitar usually does sound better as it matures.

June 24th, 2006, 09:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
PK Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ventura California Age: 49 Posts: 634 7 Photos	Martins The Martin OOO is a parlor sized guitar. The "D" series are dreadnoughts. The D-15 is an all mahogany. The D-18 is mahogany side/back with solid spruce top. The D-28 & HD-28 are rosewood side/back with sitka spruce top, the "HD" is distinguished as the "herring bone" trim. Both the D-28 & HD-28 have pre-war scalloped bracing and project like a cannon. The reason an upgrade usually means a Martin is because Martins do indeed sound better. My HD-28 blows the competetion out of the water. Period. end of story. The HD-28 projects like a sparkling cannon. It's all subjective, but I've played my HD-28 side by side many good guitars and the HD-28 envelopes and buries them all. Once you buy a guitar, and if you take proper care of it, the few extra hundred you spend for the HD-28 is less than pennies per day. If you shop well on ebay you can get the D-28 or HD-28 for around $1,000. Good luck! PK

June 25th, 2006, 01:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
Califiddler Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: California Posts: 989	Actually, current HD28s have the scalloped bracing but current D28s do not - this info is on the Martin web site. This is the reason that HD28s project better than D28s and the reason that a lot of folks prefer HD28s to D28s. I play a 1987 HD28 and love it, it's a terrific guitar, and yes, it's a cannon. Of course, a cannon is great for things like bluegrass, but you don't always want a cannon. The smaller-body models, like 000, OM, etc. generally have better balance between bass, mid and treble and are thought of as better for fingerstyle. Then again, Elizabeth Cotton and Mississippi John Hurt used big dreadnoughts for fingerpicking. Martin's web site is here: http://www.martinguitar.com There is an unofficial Martin guitar forum here: http://p082.ezboard.com/btheunofficialmartinguitarforum You can probably find out all you want to know and more from these two sites. __________________ "In the fiddler's house, all are dancers."

June 25th, 2006, 02:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
Volvoguy Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: North Vancouver, BC Posts: 401	The basic decoding of martin model numbers is as follows. The Letter prefix is all about body size. D is dreadnought, OM and 000 are the same size, though OM's have a longer scale than 000. 00 is the next size down, followed by 0. There are some other tiny size, like 5's and such, but are not common at all. The numbers are what style it is. 15 and 17's are all mahogony, 18 is spruce top with mahog back and size. Everything above that is rosewood unless otherwise specified. The higher the number, the fancier inlaid the guitar is. There is a good explanation of this on the martin guitar site. Here it is!!! __________________ As of now, this is the oldest I've ever been.

June 26th, 2006, 05:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mik Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,416	I just received a Martin D-15 RW Custom , from Musicians Friend, all solid wood (rw back, sides, spruce top), excellent workmanship, no slop, sounds great, for ONLY $799 SHIPPED, including a very nice Martin case! The string action is very comfortable. No hype: a stunning bargain, highest quality for lowest dollars. Mik __________________ a "motor-bike with a touch of blood in it is better than all the riding animals on earth, because of its logical extension of our faculties, and the hint, the provocations, to excess."-T.E. Lawrence

June 26th, 2006, 05:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
Volvoguy Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: North Vancouver, BC Posts: 401	If you're seriously considering an HD-28, I wouldn't buy it until you've played the HD-28V. Miles ahead of the Standard version, and usually only sells for maybe $500 more. Search one down anyways, worth playing them. In my opinion, the best Dreadnought they currently make that's still in the "average person" price range. __________________ As of now, this is the oldest I've ever been.

June 23rd, 2006, 04:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
cdhaskett NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4	why does an upgrade have to mean a martin? do whatever feels right. don't buy a guitar just for the name brand. i've played really really expensive guitars with brand names that didn't sound half as good as my 300 dollar alvarez. just a few thoughts, don't much mean anything...but you get the point.

June 26th, 2006, 04:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
fungusyoung Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 1,017 22 Photos	Maybe it's just me, but I've been continually underwhelmed by the playability of most of the Martins I've picked up in GC's. Then I go into a local shop (like Nazareth Music) and everything changes. You're wise to play as many Martins as you can get your hands on to see if anything moves you. I'd suggest checking out some local shops down there as well to see if there are any differences from what you experienced at GC. The D-15 is a great guitar with some options. They were all mahogany, but at least Musician's Friend has others options including a spruce top/mahog sides or spruce top/rosewood sides. If you are looking in that price range, pick up a D-16GT or RGT. I think they are great guitars within the $1,000 range.

June 27th, 2006, 01:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
goldtopper Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell Posts: 1,002	I play a Martin D40 and wouldn't trade it for anything. It's the lowest of the pimped out D size guitars with the abolone and gold etc. It's got scalloped bracing and blows every guitar out of the room, volume and tone wise. It's also a very effective banjo killer! I play a lot of bluegrass festivals and was worried about taking this one out all the time, so I bought a D28 as a "beater". Had to get rid of it after a few months because, to my ears, it was so far below the tone and feel of the '40 I couldn't bear to play it. The new '28s have that crappy maccassar ebony, dyed darker, that feels too soft and I feel, affects tone. I like the rock hard black ebony on fretboards. Who knows, maybe my '28 was just a poor representation, but I sure didn't care for it. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

June 27th, 2006, 01:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
GrayPlayer NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Granby, Ct. Age: 69 Posts: 2	Check out the UMGF for anything Martin. www.umgf.com. Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum.

June 27th, 2006, 01:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
JohnyyGuitar TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65	New axe My 2 cents... Let me start off by saying I own a couple martins amoung other guitars. Playing guitars in a store can be very deceiving. If you are not familiar with playing and in particular owning a 'good' guitar it will probably be hard for you to judge guitars, especially in a store. I don't want to disagree with other in this post but, newer martins, D18,D28,HD28,and 'V's and 'GE's, etc. are not really in the same league as other high end guitars such as Collings, Goodall, etc. I'll skip the arguments why. Anyway my point being, considering the high end Martins the low end ones aren't any great shakes. Anyway a couple points. > Try to play guitars in a quite store, or one with a guitar room, although quite places like that can make anything sound nice, it's better than trying to play in a noisey place. > Be aware that if you sit down to play a guitar in a quite envirnment and just came from a noise place, you perception in hearing will be comprimised, liken to coming from a very light place into a dark place, it take a while for your sense to adjust. > alot of how a guitar feels when you play it is in the setup, I feel that one can get use to any neck shape after owning it and playing it for a while, Martins like other guitars are not all equally setup when you grap one in the store, in particular the height of the strings at the nut is usually high and can vary between two of the same guitars sitting next to each other. So whenever you pick up a guitar, take you right finger and press down the low E string at the 1st of 2cd fret a couple times and note the distance to the fret, do it on a bunch of guitars you'll quickly be able to tell which ones are set low or high, the height of the strings at the nut has alot to do with how hard the guitar feels to play. Setting the nut height for the most part is not something done as routine factory setup, except on very high end guitars. Second check the neck releif, it really can affect playability, take a capo put it on the first fret, with a right hand finger press down the low E at the last fret, take a left hand finger and press down the string on a couple frets in half the distance, start noticing the distance, it can be hard to judge and eyeball, but to much releif and even sometimes just a little to much can make a big difference in the guitars playability. Also, the strings themselves of course will make the guitar sound dead, if you pick up a guitar and you notice the E and B plain strings are gritty and dirty, or the neck feels dirty, well the guitar is not going to feel of sound good, much more of a problem in the big stores with everyone playing them. As a side note, good guitars even sound good with dead strings, that's a sign of a good guitar. If you flat pick or finger pick, you want to make sure the guitar is right for that and it is fit with the right gauge strings, a Dreadnaught guitar with 13 strings on it is just not going to make for a good finger picking experience, no matter how good of a guitar it is. In the store play the high end guitars (not necessarily Martin) to get a feel for a good sounding guitar, if you have a dealer in your area that sells Collings, go there, the guitars will be setup precisely and 99 % of them will sound GREAT. The sound of a good guitar is hard to describe, so play them and get an ear for them, keeping in mind how the environment and your perception can play into it....have a certain lick or song that you play on each instrument so you have a consistent point to judge from. Be aware of your ability to play when you do try out the instrument, if you are not warmed up and feel comfortable, that won't help, you want to feel that your are giving your best to hear the instruments best. Now armed with all that info, when you go pick guitars in your price range, you will be a much more imformed buyer. If you are not in a rush to buy anything, consider it a project to educate yourself about what's out there and how the sound and play and why. Also, guitars, really hearing them is an acquired skill, like wine tasting or whatever, you just don't sit down with a bunch go thru them and then know the difference, oh after awhile you do, but not a first. How a guitar projects is hard tell playing by yourself, if you need the guitar to play with others, alot of guitars, Martins included, like the new D18,28s, including the scalloped ones contrary to what's been said in the post do not project well in an acoustic group setting, and I'm speaking from personal experience. I've seen more than a few pro-players go thru the new Martins, only to move on to something else (old martins can be a different story). Finally how well a guitar plays, depending the amount of skill you have to push the guitar, has alot to do with its response, and that quality is very had to find in inexpensive guitars, it is not even found in a lot of high end new Martins. Oh also consider, alot of the guitars in the 1k price range now have those flat finishes to keep the price down, those guitars really ding up fast, you can literally take you finger nail and without much pressure at all but a scratch in it, I have a D18 with an OK, just OK finish and in a couple years the finsih is coming of from my pick at the end of the pick guard.... Whew...all that being said, there are alot of guitars out there in the 1k range, and I have no personal experience with a lot of them but a few I would suggest that I feel are better than Martins in that range....try some Blueridge guitars, my friends $500 Blueridge beats my D18 hands down, even his own ex-D28, we'd laugh about, how could that cheap guitar out do a Martin, it did, for sure check them out....also I have friends that I respect their opions, say Taylors are nice. But I'd stay away from the Martins in the 1k and even above range, and I'm speaking as a D18 (not my only guitar) owner. It's not that they are junk, but I think you can do better. Of course I understand the, I want to own a Martin aspect, and when/if you re-sell, it is a 'Martin' good luck PS: if you can find a dealer, it would probably be a small one, who will let you take home instruments to try out, that's great and even worth paying more, and don't overlook used instruments. __________________ cymbols kill

June 27th, 2006, 05:10 PM	#17 (permalink)
Bopcat Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: California Age: 56 Posts: 204	Try a Gibson. I've always liked the Ovations (I've got a Legend 1777LX now). I've never liked Martins (had a 000-28). My favorite wooden acoustics are Gibsons (I've got a J-200 and a Rosewood J-45).

June 28th, 2006, 01:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
Maestro Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The United Lowlands Of Holland Posts: 755	I'm a big fan of crafter guitars (don't know if you have them in the US) the higher series was made to compete with martins. They are great value and truely great guitars. The lower end series are very good. A lot of guitar stores here in holland carry a lot of crafters because they are so good for the money. __________________ A clean conscience is usually the result of a bad memory.

June 28th, 2006, 06:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
collinsman Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2006 Location: " Land Of Ten Thousand Taxes" Posts: 1,119	I think Martin are making some of the best guitars ever now, it really comes down to setup & maybe a bone nut. I've owned many high end acoustics, SC Tony Rice, Lowden Cedar top. Taylors and others, and now I just have a 04" D 18, that's all I need. I think a D 15 would be a good guitar for blues, folk, but it doesn't have the volume of a D 18/28 type guitar. JMHO.. wouldn't work good in a jam setting. __________________ The Tele, my favorite axe and I love the Players - Albert Collins, Roy Buchanon, Robben Ford, Danny Gatton, Jerry Donohue, & many others.

June 29th, 2006, 04:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
CharlieO Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Age: 56 Posts: 1,412 10 Photos	Timmer, don't forget that a Martin will generally sound better as it matures, which is probably not as true with an Ovation. You might think that a new Martin doesn't sound significantly better than your Ovation today, but if you compare them in 10, 20 or 30 years, you'll understand the value of owning the Martin (the same can be said for most other solid wood acoustic guitars). I have had my 00-18E for 37 years, and it's a better guitar now than when it was new. It might be difficult to shop for older used Martin and other acoustics, but it's worth looking. If nothing else, play some older ones. That might help you to decide which new guitar you'd like to own for many years.

June 30th, 2006, 01:48 PM	#22 (permalink)
Bopcat Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: California Age: 56 Posts: 204	I think a good wooden acoustic will sound better with time, but I don't think a mediocre wooden acoustic will always sound better. I had a 000-28 Martin I bought in 1985. It didn't sound very good, but it was a special order so I was stuck with it. A bone nut and saddle, a set up, and 15 years later it still didn't sound very good (sold it for what I paid for it). My oldest acoustic, a 1989 Gibson J-200, sounded great the day I bought it and continues to amaze me with it's gorgeous tone. I'd never buy an expensive acoustic that was mediocre sounding with the hope that it'll be good in ten years. If it doesn't sound good today it probably won't sound great later. If it sounds great now it may be fabulous later.