Using a laptop to record acoustic guitar?

wcap · September 3rd, 2005, 02:36 AM

I recently got a new Burguet classical guitar that I am obsessed with.

I also recently got a new Mac Powerbook laptop to replace my nearly obsolete office computer.

Today I upgraded my Quicktime version to the newest version of Quicktime Pro, which has the nifty new feature of being able to easily capture live audio. This is very cool and does a remarkably good job of recording speech using the built-in microphone on the laptop.

Put this all together, and you can imagine what I tried out this evening. I took my guitar and laptop to the basement bathroom (where my guitar sounds spectacular) and tried recording some of my guitar playing using the laptop's built-in mic.

I was not expecting the sound to be like on commercial recordings, but I was hopeful that it would sound better than it does. Most of my laptop-recorded playing sort of sounds like banjo playing, which is sort of a disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I've been a banjo player for over 20 years, and I love banjos, and stylistically some of my guitar playing is a lot like banjo playing, which no doubt is part of it. However, the big issue is that the recorded guitar playing is much more percussive than what I hear when I play my guitar...the rich sound of my guitar is hardly there.

OK, this should not be surprising, seeing as I'm using a computer's built-in mic, but I'm wondering whether there might be a not too expensive way of recording directly to my computer and getting much better sound quality?

I guess I'm wondering how much improvement I could get if I simply got a better quality microphone that could be plugged into the computer?

Have any of you tried this?

Can you recommend good microphones?

I'm not expecting recording studio quality sound here. I'm not a professional musician, but rather a really avid amateur.

It would be fun to be able to record something that sounds a bit closer to reality. I'm finding it instructive to listen to my playing (realizing how much the muffled notes and sloppy playing in places affect the overall sound, realizing how many of my own compositions/arrangements sound the same stylistically (something I had not heard so clearly before), etc).

Thanks

wcap · September 3rd, 2005, 03:15 AM

As long as I'm asking the laptop question, I'll ask another related question.

If I wanted to get set up to record something closer to recording studio sound (and better than I could get recording to a laptop even with a better mic), what would it take, and how expensive would it be to get set up this way?

One thing I'll try is using my digital camcorder. I have a nice quality Sony I could use. Its built-in microphones (stereo) are much better than the laptop's mic, I suspect, and I could plug a better mic into the camcorder.

Rob DiStefano · September 3rd, 2005, 05:26 AM

I use a PC for audio recording: an SM57 mic up against the amp's speaker, the mic XLR plugs into an old Rolls Playmate powered mini mixer, then into the PC's cheap PCI sound card. I use the defunct CoolEdit 2000 and Quad Studio 4 channel mixing/editing/FX software. I works pretty well and I can produce decent CD quality recordings.

I think Mac's come with some pretty good audio recording software, like Garage Band?

wcap · September 3rd, 2005, 10:06 AM

Thanks. This Mac did come with Garage Band, though I don't yet know anything about what it does. I also have Toast (really nice CD/DVD burning software) with Jam (Jam deals with sound, and this all also came with a program called Bias Peak). I have not yet used Jam or Bias Peak, but it looks like I probably have good sound editing capabilities.

SO, maybe all I need now is a decent microphone?

I'm really new to all of this sort of thing. I have heard that there are microphones that plug directly into a PC (I think). If that is the case, and if they are decent enough in quality, do I actually need a mixer like you said you have? (and, what does a mixer do?...Like I said, I'm new to this).

One more question: Is getting good sound when recording an unamplified acoustic guitar going to present some bigger challenges than recording from an amp like you are doing?

Thanks

Tdot · September 3rd, 2005, 10:53 AM

First: I've have yet to try recording anything to my Mac, but I have been reading up on the options.

You definitely want to use Garageband (since you already own it, and it does get great reviews). The microphone built into the Powerbook isn't designed to capture the range of live music, you'll need an external.

Here's what I've been looking at:

MicPlug Adapter that allows you to use a traditional XLR mic and plug it into your USB port.
MicFlex Cheaper option, but a high quality USB microphone that would be all you need.

Rob DiStefano · September 3rd, 2005, 11:35 AM

I've started looking into a better, more mobile PC recording system and I like the idea of using a USB external sound record/play device - it can move to any computer (once the software's been installed). I've seen these USB sound interfaces for as cheap as $30 and they're PC and Mac compatible.

wcap · September 4th, 2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

I've started looking into a better, more mobile PC recording system and I like the idea of using a USB external sound record/play device - it can move to any computer (once the software's been installed). I've seen these USB sound interfaces for as cheap as $30 and they're PC and Mac compatible.

Can you tell me what ones you have been considering? The ones designed for Macs mentioned above look really cool (the "guitar plug" adapter that lets you plug your guitar in to a USB port looks particularly nifty), but it might be nice to have the flexibility of hooking up to a PC.

Rob DiStefano · September 4th, 2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

I've started looking into a better, more mobile PC recording system and I like the idea of using a USB external sound record/play device - it can move to any computer (once the software's been installed). I've seen these USB sound interfaces for as cheap as $30 and they're PC and Mac compatible.

Can you tell me what ones you have been considering? The ones designed for Macs mentioned above look really cool (the "guitar plug" adapter that lets you plug your guitar in to a USB port looks particularly nifty), but it might be nice to have the flexibility of hooking up to a PC.

This is one of the cheap USB external "sound cards" I found ...

http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-X4S.html

wcap · September 4th, 2005, 07:22 PM

OK, I have another dumb question...

Suppose I want to record my wife and myself playing music together, and I want this in stereo?

Do any of you know of any modestly priced options that give good results?

wcap · September 4th, 2005, 07:25 PM

"This is one of the cheap USB external "sound cards" I found ...

http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-X4S.html"

OK, maybe you just answered my stereo question while I was typing it.

Obviously, for stereo I'd need two microphones, and some way of hooking them both up to the inteface device.

Rob DiStefano · September 4th, 2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

"This is one of the cheap USB external "sound cards" I found ...

http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-X4S.html"

OK, maybe you just answered my stereo question while I was typing it.

Obviously, for stereo I'd need two microphones, and some way of hooking them both up to the inteface device.

It depends on what you mean by "stereo".

Having a PC/Mac input sound device is just that: the input.

My PC has an internal PCI sound card, but I don't plug directly into it, I go through a mixing device that allows a single XLR phamtom powered mic, two 1/4" instrument jacks and a stereo line in.

More importantly, my Quad Studio PC software allows me to record up to four separate tracks, and any of those tracks can be bounced (mixed) together, AND when I record it can be monaural OR stereo, at up to a CD quality sampling rate.

Make sum kinda sense?

TheBigKevDogg · September 4th, 2005, 08:28 PM

I use a cheap behringer mixer, 4 XLR and 12 inst/lines, tape in/out, control room out, etc.... To record 2 things simulaniously i either mix them together on the mixer or pan one to the right and one to the left, then set my software up (Adobe Audition) to record each channel to a separate mono track. I think it sounds pretty good when paired with my SM57!

Tdot · September 4th, 2005, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

The ones designed for Macs mentioned above look really cool (the "guitar plug" adapter that lets you plug your guitar in to a USB port looks particularly nifty), but it might be nice to have the flexibility of hooking up to a PC.

I pointed out the two items above because of the low price and and super portability for the Powerbook.

Just for trivia, most USB devices are Mac and PC friendly. The only catch is some devices require a platform specific driver. Some companies only market products as Mac or PC because they don't want to expand their customer service if they also have other products for only one platform (even though they will work on both).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

I like the idea of using a USB external sound record/play device

After Rob's comment, I went looking again. And maybe these guys have improved the descriptions on their websites, or the new products are easier to use. But here are a couple companies with some interesting low, mid, and high price options, M-Audio and Edirol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

Suppose I want to record my wife and myself playing music together, and I want this in stereo?

Stereo = 2 mic setup, or record each guitar/vocal separately and put in different tracks in Garageband. Also the built-in laptop mic is designed more for voice with filters to block background noise, that might be why you get the banjo effect.

Rob DiStefano · September 5th, 2005, 05:35 AM

There are LOTS of external USB-based sound interface boxes to choose, from ultra simple home-based to full recording studio ... I think M-Audio's Fast Track USB is one of the simpler, easier, quicker, mo' bettah units for recording up to a few folks at once ... street is about $100.

wcap · July 27th, 2007, 04:06 AM

Well, I never got around to doing anything about getting set up for recording, but I'm now hoping to do this before the end of the summer. My daughter is making a stop-motion movie and she wants to use some of my guitar pieces that I have written as background music in her movie.

Does anyone have any additional suggestions? For example, are there any really good new options now (that were not available before) that I might want to consider?

Thanks!

Nick Fanis · July 27th, 2007, 04:20 AM

Just buy an M AUDIO sound card

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...kUSB-main.html

and a nice "cheap" RHODE mic (like the NT1) & you will be more than fine

(you will use the garage band software of course)

Stubee · July 27th, 2007, 09:07 AM

There are many options but I go simple: an "iMic" (cheap little USB input) plugged into my Mac. I think it cost about $35, does the job well for the price. And yep, I use the Garageband that came with my iBook G4.

To record acoustic guitar I either a) play into an SM57-->LR Baggs DI Box-->iMic or b) transducer equipped guitar-->Baggs DI-->iMic. I have a pretty decent transducer in one guitar so usually just do that as it is easier than using the microphone (you don't have to keep guitar placement so constant while playing).

I get nice acoustic tone either way. I have more trouble getting good electric tones with Garageband than I do acoustic tone.

wcap · July 27th, 2007, 01:40 PM

Thanks so much for all the help. I think I've got a handle on how to proceed now.

I'm wondering though whether any of you have any recordings of acoustic guitar done with setups like this (with microphone only, not with transducers or other sorts of pickups on the guitar) that are either already posted or could be posted so that I could hear what sort of sound quality is possible from home recordings?

wcap · July 27th, 2007, 03:51 PM

Just talked to a guy at Groth Music (a big music store in Minnesota) who seems to have some experience with this sort of thing. His strong recommendation was the m-audio interface. According to this guy, if I ever wanted to upgrade my software to Pro Tools (which he claims is the industry standard), then I would need the m-audio device. I don't know that I'll be doing enough of this recording to warrant the big step up in software, but this seems to overall be a good endorsement for the m-audio device that several of you have already suggested.

He also recommended a good condensor microphone (might be several hundred dollars he estimated, off the top of his head), though some of the posts above suggest that cheaper microphones might be fine as well.

I also did a some searching for information on the Rhode NT1 (or its current version, the NT1A). Based on the reviews I read, it sounds like it should give wonderful sound quality (though one person said something about it not lasting long and sounding tinny as it gets older???...maybe not likely to be a problem for me unless I use it a whole lot more than I probably will, seeing as this is a hobby and not my profession???)

wcap · July 29th, 2007, 01:30 PM

I just realized there is a whole forum here dedicated to home recording. I'm not sure how I missed that before - I guess it is relatively new (and I was away from TDPRI for over 6 months). I guess interest in this home recording thing must be increasing.

I need to go browse some threads over there I guess!

bendingtens · August 2nd, 2007, 04:16 PM

I'm a Garage band user myself. It's a great program.

I bought an M-Audio Podcast factory new on Ebay for 49 bucks. It came with a good mic, though you can plug in anything you want in the XLR input. There's also a line-in jack for guitar or bass or whatever.

Some of the amp simulations and effects on garage band are fun to play through. I often plug my guitar in and crank up at night on headphones when I don't want to wake the neighbors.

September 3rd, 2005, 02:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Using a laptop to record acoustic guitar? I recently got a new Burguet classical guitar that I am obsessed with. I also recently got a new Mac Powerbook laptop to replace my nearly obsolete office computer. Today I upgraded my Quicktime version to the newest version of Quicktime Pro, which has the nifty new feature of being able to easily capture live audio. This is very cool and does a remarkably good job of recording speech using the built-in microphone on the laptop. Put this all together, and you can imagine what I tried out this evening. I took my guitar and laptop to the basement bathroom (where my guitar sounds spectacular) and tried recording some of my guitar playing using the laptop's built-in mic. I was not expecting the sound to be like on commercial recordings, but I was hopeful that it would sound better than it does. Most of my laptop-recorded playing sort of sounds like banjo playing, which is sort of a disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I've been a banjo player for over 20 years, and I love banjos, and stylistically some of my guitar playing is a lot like banjo playing, which no doubt is part of it. However, the big issue is that the recorded guitar playing is much more percussive than what I hear when I play my guitar...the rich sound of my guitar is hardly there. OK, this should not be surprising, seeing as I'm using a computer's built-in mic, but I'm wondering whether there might be a not too expensive way of recording directly to my computer and getting much better sound quality? I guess I'm wondering how much improvement I could get if I simply got a better quality microphone that could be plugged into the computer? Have any of you tried this? Can you recommend good microphones? I'm not expecting recording studio quality sound here. I'm not a professional musician, but rather a really avid amateur. It would be fun to be able to record something that sounds a bit closer to reality. I'm finding it instructive to listen to my playing (realizing how much the muffled notes and sloppy playing in places affect the overall sound, realizing how many of my own compositions/arrangements sound the same stylistically (something I had not heard so clearly before), etc). Thanks

September 3rd, 2005, 10:53 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tdot Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Back of the Wasatch, UT Posts: 3,376 58 Photos	First: I've have yet to try recording anything to my Mac, but I have been reading up on the options. You definitely want to use Garageband (since you already own it, and it does get great reviews). The microphone built into the Powerbook isn't designed to capture the range of live music, you'll need an external. Here's what I've been looking at: MicPlug Adapter that allows you to use a traditional XLR mic and plug it into your USB port. MicFlex Cheaper option, but a high quality USB microphone that would be all you need. __________________ And now for some feedback: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

September 4th, 2005, 07:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	What about stereo? OK, I have another dumb question... Suppose I want to record my wife and myself playing music together, and I want this in stereo? Do any of you know of any modestly priced options that give good results?

September 4th, 2005, 08:28 PM	#12 (permalink)
TheBigKevDogg Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Santa Barbara, CA/USC Posts: 147 10 Photos	I use a cheap behringer mixer, 4 XLR and 12 inst/lines, tape in/out, control room out, etc.... To record 2 things simulaniously i either mix them together on the mixer or pan one to the right and one to the left, then set my software up (Adobe Audition) to record each channel to a separate mono track. I think it sounds pretty good when paired with my SM57! __________________ My Guitars (and Other Instruments) http://members.cox.net/thebigkevdogg/Guitars/Index.html

July 27th, 2007, 04:20 AM	#16 (permalink)
Nick Fanis Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-GREECE Posts: 1,751 14 Photos	Just buy an M AUDIO sound card http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...kUSB-main.html and a nice "cheap" RHODE mic (like the NT1) & you will be more than fine (you will use the garage band software of course) __________________ "Hit him again Jack,he is crazy!" Hunter S.Thompson www.myspace.com/nickfanis

September 3rd, 2005, 03:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	As long as I'm asking the laptop question, I'll ask another related question. If I wanted to get set up to record something closer to recording studio sound (and better than I could get recording to a laptop even with a better mic), what would it take, and how expensive would it be to get set up this way? One thing I'll try is using my digital camcorder. I have a nice quality Sony I could use. Its built-in microphones (stereo) are much better than the laptop's mic, I suspect, and I could plug a better mic into the camcorder.

September 3rd, 2005, 05:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 62 Posts: 4,613	I use a PC for audio recording: an SM57 mic up against the amp's speaker, the mic XLR plugs into an old Rolls Playmate powered mini mixer, then into the PC's cheap PCI sound card. I use the defunct CoolEdit 2000 and Quad Studio 4 channel mixing/editing/FX software. I works pretty well and I can produce decent CD quality recordings. I think Mac's come with some pretty good audio recording software, like Garage Band?

September 3rd, 2005, 10:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Thanks. This Mac did come with Garage Band, though I don't yet know anything about what it does. I also have Toast (really nice CD/DVD burning software) with Jam (Jam deals with sound, and this all also came with a program called Bias Peak). I have not yet used Jam or Bias Peak, but it looks like I probably have good sound editing capabilities. SO, maybe all I need now is a decent microphone? I'm really new to all of this sort of thing. I have heard that there are microphones that plug directly into a PC (I think). If that is the case, and if they are decent enough in quality, do I actually need a mixer like you said you have? (and, what does a mixer do?...Like I said, I'm new to this). One more question: Is getting good sound when recording an unamplified acoustic guitar going to present some bigger challenges than recording from an amp like you are doing? Thanks

September 3rd, 2005, 11:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 62 Posts: 4,613	I've started looking into a better, more mobile PC recording system and I like the idea of using a USB external sound record/play device - it can move to any computer (once the software's been installed). I've seen these USB sound interfaces for as cheap as $30 and they're PC and Mac compatible.

September 4th, 2005, 07:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	"This is one of the cheap USB external "sound cards" I found ... http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-X4S.html" OK, maybe you just answered my stereo question while I was typing it. Obviously, for stereo I'd need two microphones, and some way of hooking them both up to the inteface device.

September 5th, 2005, 05:35 AM	#14 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 62 Posts: 4,613	There are LOTS of external USB-based sound interface boxes to choose, from ultra simple home-based to full recording studio ... I think M-Audio's Fast Track USB is one of the simpler, easier, quicker, mo' bettah units for recording up to a few folks at once ... street is about $100.

July 27th, 2007, 04:06 AM	#15 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Well, I never got around to doing anything about getting set up for recording, but I'm now hoping to do this before the end of the summer. My daughter is making a stop-motion movie and she wants to use some of my guitar pieces that I have written as background music in her movie. Does anyone have any additional suggestions? For example, are there any really good new options now (that were not available before) that I might want to consider? Thanks!

July 27th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#17 (permalink)
Stubee Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mid-Michigan Age: 57 Posts: 420	There are many options but I go simple: an "iMic" (cheap little USB input) plugged into my Mac. I think it cost about $35, does the job well for the price. And yep, I use the Garageband that came with my iBook G4. To record acoustic guitar I either a) play into an SM57-->LR Baggs DI Box-->iMic or b) transducer equipped guitar-->Baggs DI-->iMic. I have a pretty decent transducer in one guitar so usually just do that as it is easier than using the microphone (you don't have to keep guitar placement so constant while playing). I get nice acoustic tone either way. I have more trouble getting good electric tones with Garageband than I do acoustic tone.

July 27th, 2007, 01:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Thanks so much for all the help. I think I've got a handle on how to proceed now. I'm wondering though whether any of you have any recordings of acoustic guitar done with setups like this (with microphone only, not with transducers or other sorts of pickups on the guitar) that are either already posted or could be posted so that I could hear what sort of sound quality is possible from home recordings?

July 27th, 2007, 03:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	Just talked to a guy at Groth Music (a big music store in Minnesota) who seems to have some experience with this sort of thing. His strong recommendation was the m-audio interface. According to this guy, if I ever wanted to upgrade my software to Pro Tools (which he claims is the industry standard), then I would need the m-audio device. I don't know that I'll be doing enough of this recording to warrant the big step up in software, but this seems to overall be a good endorsement for the m-audio device that several of you have already suggested. He also recommended a good condensor microphone (might be several hundred dollars he estimated, off the top of his head), though some of the posts above suggest that cheaper microphones might be fine as well. I also did a some searching for information on the Rhode NT1 (or its current version, the NT1A). Based on the reviews I read, it sounds like it should give wonderful sound quality (though one person said something about it not lasting long and sounding tinny as it gets older???...maybe not likely to be a problem for me unless I use it a whole lot more than I probably will, seeing as this is a hobby and not my profession???) Last edited by wcap : July 29th, 2007 at 02:19 AM.

July 29th, 2007, 01:30 PM	#20 (permalink)
wcap Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 170	I just realized there is a whole forum here dedicated to home recording. I'm not sure how I missed that before - I guess it is relatively new (and I was away from TDPRI for over 6 months). I guess interest in this home recording thing must be increasing. I need to go browse some threads over there I guess!

August 2nd, 2007, 04:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
bendingtens Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 150	I'm a Garage band user myself. It's a great program. I bought an M-Audio Podcast factory new on Ebay for 49 bucks. It came with a good mic, though you can plug in anything you want in the XLR input. There's also a line-in jack for guitar or bass or whatever. Some of the amp simulations and effects on garage band are fun to play through. I often plug my guitar in and crank up at night on headphones when I don't want to wake the neighbors.