Advice please on 1950 Gibson J-45

[punch]

Hi there,

I can get a 1950 Gibson J-45 but I'm having doubts here...I'm a vintage electric expert but NOT on acoustics...please advice on this guitar! Are these guitars comparable in sound to banner Gibsons?

I guess the bridge is not original (because of the short saddle) or has been removed once...and the tuners are vintage but not original because they are double line Klusons instead of single line what they should be! If the finish is original (I guess it is) all else is ok (apart from the case)...

Here are some pics:

[Buckocaster51]

That bridge may have been replaced at the factory.

Can't speak about the tuners, but replacing bad tuners with something that works is not a big deal.

What do you know about the long crack in the bottom side?

As far as the sound goes...have you played it? Have you had someone at the store play it to you over the phone?

[punch]

I'm going to see and hear the guitar coming thursday...but I want to have as much info as possible before I go there...

[spook69]

You may want to try over at the UMGF in the vintage section.

A lot of vintage Gibson acoustic experts hang out there.

[punch]

Originally Posted by spook69

You may want to try over at the UMGF in the vintage section.

A lot of vintage Gibson acoustic experts hang out there.

Thanks! I tried, but I'm not able to post a new topic...I have to get authorisation first from the administrator???

[Stubee]

It takes some time to get UMGF to accept your join. I know a little bit about old Gibsons so PM me if you'd like. I do not know EU vintage pricing.

[spook69]

Originally Posted by punch

Thanks! I tried, but I'm not able to post a new topic...I have to get authorisation first from the administrator???

Yep, you need to join first, but it is worth it!

[TaylorPlayer]

Looks good to me. The tuners are just like the originals on my 1964 Gibson LG1. If the bridge was replaced, it is in the correct orientation (belly side up). Not sure about your comment regarding the saddle as it looks to be fitting just fine in the bridge.

As to how it will sound compared to a "Banner" one, well even banner Gibsons can sound different. I can tell you most Vintage acoustics I have played are more of a Mellow tone than newer guitars. Darker if you will in terms of the tone. My 64 Gibson LG1 has a tone all it's own that is hard to describe, but it is mid rangey which I love for fingerstyle blues and Jim Croce type songs. Works great for Beatles tunes as well, but if I want a more modern sound I have to play either my Taylor 612C or my Gibson Advanced Jumbo. Neither of those two can truly hit that "Blues tones" that my old LG1 does and I say much of that has to do with the wood and ladder braceing of the guitar.

Old guitars are cool!

[dan1952]

'50's Gibson dreadnoughts are, generally, my favorite acoustics, even more so than the Pre-War guitars. Very balanced sound, and record great.

[brookdalebill]

The best sounding slope shoulder dread I ever heard was a 1952 J-45.
I had a great sounding 1963 Epi Texan (like a long scale J-50) for years.
The 40's/early 50's small pick guard 45s have that "dry" tone.
It's a great sound that really compliments vocals.

[Frontier9]

To me, a J-45 has the perfect sound - I'd be all over that thing if I had the cash.

[muudcat]

Maybe have a look inside to check bridge plate and braces, Stew Mac recommended

[punch]

Originally Posted by TaylorPlayer

Looks good to me. The tuners are just like the originals on my 1964 Gibson LG1. If the bridge was replaced, it is in the correct orientation (belly side up). Not sure about your comment regarding the saddle as it looks to be fitting just fine in the bridge.

As to how it will sound compared to a "Banner" one, well even banner Gibsons can sound different. I can tell you most Vintage acoustics I have played are more of a Mellow tone than newer guitars. Darker if you will in terms of the tone. My 64 Gibson LG1 has a tone all it's own that is hard to describe, but it is mid rangey which I love for fingerstyle blues and Jim Croce type songs. Works great for Beatles tunes as well, but if I want a more modern sound I have to play either my Taylor 612C or my Gibson Advanced Jumbo. Neither of those two can truly hit that "Blues tones" that my old LG1 does and I say much of that has to do with the wood and ladder braceing of the guitar.

Old guitars are cool!

Well, the bridge looks old but a 1950 J-45 should have a LONG saddle and this one has a short one...plus it has been compensated (you can see that if you look at the b-string)...it looks like there has never been a long saddle in it because there are no holes or wood filling visible...so that's all a bit strange!

[punch]

Originally Posted by Frontier9

To me, a J-45 has the perfect sound - I'd be all over that thing if I had the cash.

Well, I don't have the cash either, I have to trade it against a 2011 Gibson Historic aged (!!!) Les Paul '58 reissue in iced tea sunburst with the most authentic top you have ever seen on a reissue Les Paul...and I loooove that guitar so that's making it a very hard choice for me...

I always wanted an old J-45 to 'grow old with and sit on the porch', and here's my opportunity but I'm afraid I will never find another Les Paul like this one...

The problem is that both guitars are NOT comparable at all...help!

[TaylorPlayer]

Originally Posted by punch

Well, I don't have the cash either, I have to trade it against a 2011 Gibson Historic aged (!!!) Les Paul '58 reissue in iced tea sunburst with the most authentic top you have ever seen on a reissue Les Paul...and I loooove that guitar so that's making it a very hard choice for me...

I always wanted an old J-45 to 'grow old with and sit on the porch', and here's my opportunity but I'm afraid I will never find another Les Paul like this one...

The problem is that both guitars are NOT comparable at all...help!

For that kind of trade I can understand your problem. If I were to consider making a trade like that I would at least take an automotive type mirror and check out braces and internal potential issues. I would also bring a 2-3 foot ruler to check the neck angle and make sure a neck reset was not in the near future.

In reality the safest thing to do would be to have a qualified local luthier/tech with vintage acoustic experience to take a good professional look at it due to the age. But being an acoustic guy for the most part, I would probably make the trade if everything checked out.

[noah330]

I would buy it but the saddle looks kind of low so you may need a reset at some point soon - could be the pic. At any rate, I would buy it.

[Ed Miller]

It looks good to me. My 54 SJ had the same keys and bridge. It's possible the bridge was replaced by the factory. (Most repairs were done at the factory back then) If it was replaced. I learned a long time ago what it should be doesn't mean much. It's possible they used that bridge because they needed to finish j-45's and used SJ bridges, or they were working on the new design and decided to try it.
I did my apprenticeship under a guy that worked at Gibson in kalamazoo for over twenty years. Interesting things happened there on Parsons street.

[punch]

Originally Posted by Stubee

It takes some time to get UMGF to accept your join. I know a little bit about old Gibsons so PM me if you'd like. I do not know EU vintage pricing.

I did not PM you because the only information and pictures that I have are allready in the thread (I've got nothing new to tell you)
But thanks for the offer!

[punch]

Some more pics, also from the sides (some cracks here):















And to make things even more difficult to decide, the same seller now also has a refinished '43/'44 banner J-45 (same price)...HELP!!!

[zombywoof]

Other than the bridge, structurally the 1950 J-45 will be identical to the earlier banner Gibsons - there were no real changes until 1955. You should even still see the fabric side supports.

I have not played either guitar so can't say which to snag. While I am a big fan of the rectangular bridge Gibsons (I own a 46-47 script logo Gibson), assuming both are good examples of the breed soundwise, I would go with the 1950 - cracks and all - just because of the original finish. Gibson would actually heat the lacquer before applying it so they could get it on in one even, thick coat (as the solvent evaporated, the finish would lose about 1/2 of its thickness in the first few moths alone). That is not saying I would turn my back on a refinished instrument but it would have to sound as it should and could be got at a very deep discount. Another thing you need to think about is war time guitars can be somewhat odd. You may get tops made out of several pieces. A friend of mine has a J-45 with a wood truss rod in it. I have seen another J-45 from the same period with a mahogany top.

Again though, assuming there is nothing too strange about the banner J-45, it is pretty much the same guitar as the 1950 instrument.