Re-topping a 1982 Guild D15M

[Telenator]

I have a GUild D15M that I did not take very good care of over the years and the top has cracked in two places. I just bought a quartersawn sitka spruce top, ebony bridge and spruce bracing to replace to the mahogany top on the guitar.

The sound hole is 4" on the cracked top. The new sound board has a 3 3/4" sound hole. What effect does sound hole size have on an acoustic guitar?

[Stuco]

The bigger soundhole is supposed to add a little bass to the sound. It won't make nearly as much of a difference as changing from a hog top to a spruce top will. Please document this with photos, I'd really enjoy seeing this job.

[Buckocaster51]

Ask Tony Rice



it seems that every guitar he has ever touched has an oversized sound hole.

[Telenator]

I can cut the sound hole larger but was curious if it would make much difference.

I have never done this job before so I could realistically end up with a pile of kindling when all is said and done. I'll try to get some photos of the process.

The decision to re-top this guitar came when I was shopping for a new acoustic and everything I liked was over $2000! I don't have that kinda dough to spend on a guitar that will only be played occasionally. So, for $150 I got all the materials I need to fix my aging Guild.

That is a big 'ol sound hole on Tony Rice's guitar!

[BoB/335]

I have a Guild D25 from the mid 70's that has 2 cracks in the top. I wouldn't touch that guitar for the world!!!

[Telenator]

If yours has a spruce top, I agree, I wouldn't touch it. But mine has a mahogany top and I've never been too thrilled with the sound. This will also be a good learning experience for building my first scratch-built acoustic at some point in the future. Have a little faith Bob. I haven't wrecked anything yet!

[ednew]

Telenator,

Suggestion--Touch base with the Guild gurus at this great website:

http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/index.php

Likely someone there would have helpful info for you before you go ahead with re-topping.

Ed

[Telenator]

Thanks Ed!

[zombywoof]

Agree with those who say don't change the top. Just have the cracks fixed.

[allen st. john]

If yours has a spruce top, I agree, I wouldn't touch it. But mine has a mahogany top and I've never been too thrilled with the sound. This will also be a good learning experience for building my first scratch-built acoustic at some point in the future. Have a little faith Bob. I haven't wrecked anything yet!

I would get the cracks fixed and sell the guitar. It's not that expensive or difficult for a good luthier to fix even substantial top cracks. You can buy a used Martin 15 series or any number of other nice used acoustics for under $1,000.

Retopping a guitar is simply the hardest job in luthierie. It combines the most challenging aspects of guitar building---thicknessing and bracing the top--with the daunting job of removing the top cleanly and fitting the new top exactly.

There are 1,000 ways to do this job wrong, and one way to do it right. Respectfully, if you're asking pretty basic questions about sound hole size, you might consider a more manageable project.

[Telenator]

I do appreciate the concern but I'm fairly skilled in scratch building solid and semi-hollow electric guitars. This is my first foray into acoustic guitars and I suppose we all need to start somewhere. I have every confidence this will turn out fine.

Here's a few of my recent builds:

[Stuco]

I'm sure you will do a fine job. Go for it!

[Telenator]

Now I have to make up a tool to cut the sound hole larger. Just a silly little 1/4"

Can't wait to tear the neck off today. OK, steam the neck off. LOL!

[westex93]

Actually, the larger soundhole will not increase bass response, contrary to popular opinion. If anything, the shift in the main air mode will result in what appears to result in more treble response, all else being equal (which it rarely is). As an aside, the larger soundhole will give a more open sound to the player - somewhat like a soundport monitor. Has a tendency to "spread the sound around", so to speak.

Allow me to caveat that I haven't built one myself with an oversized soundhole, but I have played some. Mine stay in the 4" range for dreads and OMs. But many well known luthiers that I hang out with on some luthier forums have built them and will agree. Has to do with the relationship between the main air mass and the soundhole. If you don't believe me, try blowing in a bottle while partially covering and uncovering the hole and see what happens to the tone. Or try it while downing your favorite beverage. Watch how the tone changes when the relative air mass increases in ratio to the fixed aperture.

My own opinion would be to get a set of reliable plans, such as from Stew-Mac, and stick to them. These bracing designs are tried and true and will give you a good result. Heck, since this is an experiment, retop it per design, then start slowly opening up the soundhole size and watch the change. Should be a learning experience at least. Just remember, once you take it out, it's hard to put back....

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by Telenator

If yours has a spruce top, I agree, I wouldn't touch it. But mine has a mahogany top and I've never been too thrilled with the sound. This will also be a good learning experience for building my first scratch-built acoustic at some point in the future. Have a little faith Bob. I haven't wrecked anything yet!

Just realized who this is. Hope things are well, Bob. When's the next jam?

[Telenator]

OK, new twist in the project!

With the help of my luthier friend Mike, we removed the neck from the body yesterday. Those of you who are considering doing this on a Guild, DON'T!

They use so much glue in the joint and where the heel meets the body that it's nearly impossible to remove the neck without trashing the guitar.

We ended up with 4 discreet holes and about 1 1/2 hours of steaming to finally pull the neck loose.

As it happens, I was poking around on ebay this morning and found a roughed out, raw Guild neck with pearl inlay on the peghead, truss rod installed and plenty of meat to shape the profile to my exact liking. The current neck has always been a little narrow for my taste and has the cheap gold painted Guild logo on it so, for $90, the new neck is a mighty fine up grade!

Photos will follow.

ednew, I signed up for the guild forum yesterday but have not yet been approved for membership.



BoB/335, things are great! I was just thinking about hosting another jam. We'll see. Attendance isn't what it used to be back in the glory days. Ya think Wonder Woman will show up? LOL!

[ednew]

Originally Posted by Telenator

ednew, I signed up for the guild forum yesterday but have not yet been approved for membership.

Don Laidler is the list owner there--he also sells Guild products and parts. Good guy--he's worth the wait.

E

[BoB/335]

Ah yes! Wonder Woman. Those were the days. Wonder what ever happened to that Wonder???

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by ednew

Don Laidler is the list owner there--he also sells Guild products and parts. Good guy--he's worth the wait.

E

Still no word from this Don Laidler. I'll have the guitar re-topped, re-necked and finished by the time he gets around to approving my membership!

BoB/335, yeah those sure were the days. I ended up hosting 16 New England Jams with a high of 48 players at one of them. Then there was my Jam Across America Tour. I completed 25 states in 3 years when that finally played out. Lots of fun back then. Too bad the folks at "tweedscape" are so militant.

[Buckocaster51]

A real quick way to remove a top that you will NOT be using again is with a router.

Also gives you a clean gluing surface on the kerfed lining.

[Telenator]

Thanks Bucko! I was thinking the same thing!

My new neck was shipped yesterday and should be here tomorrow!

The big question is, "should I make this a 24 3/4" scale? Or a 25 1/2" scale?"

I know the neck will join at like, the 13th fret if I do a longer scale and I'll probably have to trim off a fret or two to clear the sound hole but so what?! It might be cool!

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Still no word from this Don Laidler. I'll have the guitar re-topped, re-necked and finished by the time he gets around to approving my membership!

BoB/335, yeah those sure were the days. I ended up hosting 16 New England Jams with a high of 48 players at one of them. Then there was my Jam Across America Tour. I completed 25 states in 3 years when that finally played out. Lots of fun back then. Too bad the folks at "tweedscape" are so militant.

16 New England Jams!!! I think I only made 3 of them. If I remember correctly, Wonder Woman made 1 Manhattan Jam and only 1 New England Jam. I don't remember much after that.

[Telenator]

That's right BoB/335. 16 Jams here in Connecticut.

When I began the series over at uh, ahem, "tweedscape," there was no forum jam activity whatsoever. After my Jam Across America Tour got underway, people began hosting jams all over the country to help me out. I jammed with forum members in 25 states over a 3 year period. It was an awesome experience and led to the increasing popularity of these events.

It's just so awesome when people get behind a cool idea and we all have a good time over it!

[ednew]

Originally Posted by Telenator

That's right BoB/335. 16 Jams here in Connecticut.

When I began the series over at uh, ahem, "tweedscape," there was no forum jam activity whatsoever. After my Jam Across America Tour got underway, people began hosting jams all over the country to help me out. I jammed with forum members in 25 states over a 3 year period. It was an awesome experience and led to the increasing popularity of these events.

It's just so awesome when people get behind a cool idea and we all have a good time over it!

I'm not familiar with Jam Across America. What was that about?

Thanks,
Ed

[Telenator]

Several years ago I was an active member of another guitar forum and I was traveling alot at the time. I often found myself alone at night with nothing to do so I started posting on the guitar forum when I was going to be in a particular part of the country and then asked if anyone would like to jam, or if there was a local open mic in the area.

As the jams I hosted here in Connecticut became more high profile, people became familiar with my travels and got behind the cause. It just mushroomed into this big thing and a lot of us made friends that we still keep in touch with. At one point I had so many air miles accumulated, I would jump on a plane, fly to Oregon or Florida, or Texas just to jam with friends for a day. No luggage, just a guitar. Makes a guy feel like a rock star! LOL!

It was one of the coolest experiences I've ever had to see how people would come together for the sake of meeting eachother in person, play a little music, and then check off another state from my list.

Some states were visited 2 or 3 times. Some people out there know they always have a place to stay in Connecticut, and likewise, I know I can call on several people all over the country for the same. That's cool!

[ednew]

Fantastic!! And a first, as far as I know. Lots of folks do it locally but you are the first to go cross country jammin'!!

E

[Telenator]

It was a lot of fun and I got to see the very best in people. Such a good time. I wish it was still going on today!

[Telenator]

Well, the neck is off and I routed the top off today as well.

I'll take some photos as soon as I get a chance.

I used a small Ryobi router with a flat base and just freehanded it around the edge of the body cutting just slightly deeper than the top to reveal a fresh kerfing surface.

Next, I'm going to bond some sheets of sand paper to the top of the table saw and sand the top edge of the body perfectly flat in preparation for the new top.

So far it's all going well and quite an enjoyable project. Photos coming soon.