Taylor, Seagull, & Rain Song

[harvdog]

I have been shopping for a 6 strings acoustic electric and recently have been leaving heavily towards a Taylor 314ce or 414ce. Well, last night I visited another local guitar shop and played a few brands I had never played before; Seagull and Rain Song.

I started with a Seagull Performer (Folk Cutaway) which sounded much better than I expected and I really liked the light wood finish. The action was a bit high but obviously could be adjusted. At less than $700, this was under half of the Taylors I have been looking at.

Next was the Rain Song WS-1000. Wow! What a cool looking guitar!! And the sound...incredible!!! Very rich low tones and bright high tones. I was very impressed with the volume as well. Light strumming or fingerpicking resonated well, whereas, full on, aggressive strumming just burst out of the guitar. In talking with the owner of the store, who owns one himself, these things hold their tuning very well since them don't have to contend with humidity, etc. Obviously, this would be a very sturdy and durable guitar. The one I played was a 2008 model and the guy said he could definitely get me below $2000.

My next step is to go to a different guitar shop and play each of these in an A, B, C comparison.

Any thoughts here?

[Telarkaster]

When I was shopping for an acoustic, I thought that I was going to bring home a Taylor 314ce. Then I tried a Seagull Mini Jumbo cutaway with QII electronics (saddle pup and adjustable mic in the soundhole with blend pot) at half the price and the choice was obvious. I'm still tripping out with the Seagull, sounds awesome plugged in with band, very nice unplugged.

I have no experience with the Rain Song. Let your ears and budget guide you: the 314ce and 414ce are nice guitars, but if the Rain Song speaks to you...

[mudbean]

Did anything else besides sound and looks (and price) strike you between the Taylor and Seagull?

How did the necks compare, feel-wise?

mud

[studio1087]

I have a Taylor 214 and I had a Rainsong AWS1000.

The AWS1000 was the "budget" OM Rainsong that you could buy for $1200.

I sat in the third row and watched Leo Kottke play a Rainsong all night at a show about three years ago. I wanted a Rainsong for winter gigs and recording ever since I saw Leo live. It gets bitter cold and dry in WI winters and taking one of my Martins or Taylors or my Larrivee out in a car trunk in sub zero weather was scary. I bought the Rainsong.

I never bonded with the Carbon Graphite guitar. It felt like plastic. The neck felt like hard plastic. It was so cool when I tried it at the store and I was very excited at first but it was a very short love affair. It felt kind of anemic after a while. I sold it after about 18 months.

I have K&K Pure Passive pickups in three Martins. I use the Pure preamp which is very simple when I play fingerstyle stuff at weddings. Simple is good. The Fishman Preamp on the Rainsong drove me nuts. Four EQ bands....parametric mid shift....phase inverter......notch filter.....I could diddle with that preamp for hours and be confused and unhappy.

That Taylor 314CE has the Taylor Expression system like my T5 has. Volume - Active Treble - Active Bass. Three knobs and it sounds like an acoustic guitar through a PA. Getting an acoustic guitar to sound like an acoustic guitar through a PA is a tough trick. The Taylor Expression system works and it's simple.

If I needed a winter gigging acoustic I would spend $599 on a Taylor 114 and drag the thing all over kingdom come.

I like OOO sized guitars. I would take a serious look at the 314CE if I were you. Play it through a Fishman Loudbox 100 at a store and listen to the acoustic sound....then try the Rain Song.

My 2 cents.

Have fun shopping.

John

[TxTeleMan]

Martin.

[Guitfiddler]

I've got a 414ce and love it. The Fishman preamp/eq is excellent, and one of the best sounding acoustic pickups I've heard. The piezo pickup is also very good, which is nice for me cause I usually think they sound thin and tinny.

BUT, I have played several low-end Seagulls (like $300ish) that sounded just as good to me as my $1800 Taylor, several Martins I have access to. I loved the cedar top dreadnoughts. I've been considering selling my Taylor, buying a Seagull and poping in a high-end pickup of somekind (then using what's left over to buy another Tele).

It's not that I think the Taylor, Martin, Seagull, or whatever have an inherently better tone, I seem to find a useful tone out of most anything, but the Seagull has a very nice, folksy, balanced tone to my ears. And the action/neck has always seemed to be very good on the ones I've played.

[Bill Ashton]

...try a Guild...(he humbly sugggested )

[studio1087]

Originally Posted by Guitfiddler

I've got a 414ce and love it. The Fishman preamp/eq is excellent, and one of the best sounding acoustic pickups I've heard.

You would have to find an older 314 to get the Fishman. They have not used that preamp for years. I respect your opinion but I still think that Bob Taylor's Expression System blows the old Fishman preamp away in sound quality and simplicity.


2000 model 314CE available at Elderly - Link

New 314CE with the Expression System - Link

[jazztele]

Seagull's might not be the best guitar out there, but they're the best value out there. My 15 year old S6 sounds better every year.

I might also suggest looking at the cheaper asian made breedloves...I played one recently, and it sounded better than martins and taylors in the shop that were 2-3 times more expensive-- it did need a good setup though.

if you're looking to spend some money, taylor and martin are nice and all, but playing one larrivee cured any taylor or martin flattop GAS i ever had. YMMV.

[imwjl]

Good comments here. I tried the carbon guitars and decided to stick with my plastic fantastic cheap Little Martin as far as tough and travel.

Seaguls I've played have been super values. Same would be said for Larrivees where I've had two.

Over time it became obvious that I love the acoustic sound not amplified and to play with strumming, fingers and hybrid. That's where my Martins have some intangible others did not have even though I always enjoy playing a Taylor. You could get a used OM-21 or maybe even a used OM-28V for not too far away from a 414.

I've carried my Martins to shops to play them against the Taylors I enjoy playing. I concluded it was fair game amplified but unplugged the Martins win for the way all the strings sound and coaxing out the tone all over the neck. The newer Taylors had better sounding low notes but some bark or buzz in the G string that I like but not want for all the time or rest of my life.

I would also suggest delayed gratification if you can handle it. I spent about 2 years with some buying and selling between before I came across my used OM-28. It's so good that I should probably just sell everything else.

More on finding used V series Martins: I've had the fun and fortune to play 40 - 60+ year old Martins a few times and jam with them weekly. D, 00, 000 and OM V series have all have elements of that special stuff within the reach of many budgets.

Studio will have to play my OM-28 at our next area gathering!

Have fun shopping.

[Guitfiddler]

Originally Posted by studio1087

You would have to find an older 314 to get the Fishman. They have not used that preamp for years. I respect your opinion but I still think that Bob Taylor's Expression System blows the old Fishman preamp away in sound quality and simplicity.


2000 model 314CE available at Elderly - Link

New 314CE with the Expression System - Link

You're not allowed to respect my opinion--this is the Internet!!

I would agree with you that the expression system is simpler--it's 3 knobs vs a host of EQ options, but to my ears it doesn't sound as good. It still sounds great, just not quite on par with the old Fishman IMO.

[studio1087]

It may be a "me" problem. Give me 6 controls rather than 3 controls and I'l fiddle fiddle fiddle fiddle until I freak out.

[Bill Ashton]

Me again...

Seek out a Guild GAD30PCE to try...

Grand concert body, sitka top, padauk back and sides, mahogany neck, Fishman Matrix p'up, Grover "Waverly-like tuners"...and a very nice olive-tweed hardshell fitted case.

Downside: gloss poly finish, Chinese made (if that is an issue for you)...

[franchelB]

I own 2 Taylors and, of course, I'd highly recommend buying a Taylor. But I would suggest looking at your budget:
Seagull is a great choice for the money.
Rain Song guitars will probably last you a lifetime for the price.

[Staggered Mag]

Taylor's customer service is by far the best I have ever dealt with. They stand behind there product 100%. This should be a consideration when buying a higher quality guitar.

[studio1087]

The Taylor 114E is in the price range of the Seagulls. 114E's are available everywhere....try one just for fun.

http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/114E.htm

Elderly lists $750 as the price but I see them for $699 in shops all the time.

I think that you would be really surprised at how nice these sound unplugged or plugged in.



The price jump from a 114 to a 114E is only $100. You're paying $100 for the active Expression System. I paid about $135 total parts and labor to have passive K&K Pure Western Systems put in my Martins by my luthier. The 114E is a hell of deal.

[studio1087]

Studio will have to play my OM-28 at our next area gathering!

You're preaching to the choir. I bought my OM16GT from Elderly about 10 years ago. I'm taking my OM to the grave.