Need input: Taylor vs. Seagull

[brgminicooper]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm a bit of a noob, but I do know that I will need to play a guitar and put hands on it before I buy it to know if it will actually be "the one" for me.

Having said that, I am getting rid of my current acoustic (Epi EJ200CE) and looking at purchasing a new one that doesn't have a laminated top. I have narrowed my search to Seagull and Taylor for a couple of reasons:

1. The Seagull guitars seem to offer a level of quality that simply can't be found in other North-American-built guitars at this price. I also like the wider fret board (1.8") and shorter-length scale (24.8"). I have short, fat fingers, so those features are appealing to me. Further, I can probably get an A/E dread with case for right around $625 from a local store. I tried one out yesterday at the store and it felt pretty good when I was strumming chords and playing harmonies...

2. A good friend of mine has a Taylor that simply sounds great. I believe it's a 110 and none of the three acoustics I have owned sounded anything like it. While the Taylor's neck is wider (1 and 11/16ths) than the guitar I currently have, it is not as wide as the Seagull's neck. The scale is longe,r too: 25.5". However, I have spent some time strumming my friend's guitar and definitely like the feel of it. Unfortunately, they are a little pricier (not much though). I think I could get a dreadnought with electronics for right around $650. That one would come with a gig bag while the Seagull would get a hard case. To upgrade to the hard case would be maybe $100 extra.

So, keeping these things in mind, I am leaning toward the Seagull. However, I'd like to hear from the veterans here regarding anything I may be missing. Is there a glaring reason to buy one of these guitars over the other? What do you all think? Please understand that I know this is subjective and can't be settled scientifically, so I welcome both subjective and objective comments from people who own or have owned either or both of these brand names.

[cotecj]

Seagulls are terrific guitars. I too, like the wide neck and short scale. And the sound is fantastic. I have yet to play one that didn't sound great. The one gripe I do have, and the only reason why I don't own one yet, is that the neck is very thin near the nut. It's wide and flat. I am not sure if I could get used to that. If that works for you, then it's not an issue, though.

Taylor guitars are very good. I love the way every one I have tried plays. I can't get past the bright tone, though. To my ears, it's overly bright, almost harsh. They do make some short scale guitars, the -12 series acoustic electrics and GC series acoustics. They are hard to find, but the one I have tried was much mellower and sounded better than any other Taylors I've played. Others have had the same experience.

[brgminicooper]

That's more or less what I thought, though I find the brightness in the Taylor guitars compelling rather than off-putting.

Thanks for taking the time to share.

[Jakedog]

HUGE seagull fan here. I play one for a living. It 's a great guitar, sounds beautiful, extremely well made, plays like butter, killer electronics, at a fair price.

I wouldn't own a Taylor. I have lots of high end acoustics, and a great appreciation for them. I think if Taylors 500 series and above were $1,000 dollars cheaper a piece, they could be worth the money. But not for what they are asking. There are just too many great sounding well built alternatives out there for more competitive prices. YMMV, but the broomstick necks and $$$ just don't do it for me.

As far as the bright tone, get rid of the damn rat-crap factory elixirs for some real strings, and break one in for a year. Taylors are FINE sounding instruments, and except for the 600 series (maple back and sides have something to do with this I'm sure) are not overly bright. I just don't think they are worth the money they ask. You can get a high end Seagull in the $800-$1500 range that is ever bit the guitar a $4K Taylor is in the sound and build quality departments. No question.

Between a $650 Taylor and a comparably priced Seagull? Well, I'd take some bailing wire and a freight pallet over that sub-$700 Taylor.

High end Taylors are exceptionally nice (although WAY overpriced IMO) instruments. The low end stuff though, you just pay alot for the logo. I have never picked up a 1, 2, or 300 series that was even the least bit enticing, no matter what the price.

[brgminicooper]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

HUGE seagull fan here. I play one for a living. It 's a great guitar, sounds beautiful, extremely well made, plays like butter, killer electronics, at a fair price.

I wouldn't own a Taylor. I have lots of high end acoustics, and a great appreciation for them. I think if Taylors 500 series and above were $1,000 dollars cheaper a piece, they could be worth the money. But not for what they are asking. There are just too many great sounding well built alternatives out there for more competitive prices. YMMV, but the broomstick necks and $$$ just don't do it for me.

As far as the bright tone, get rid of the damn rat-crap factory elixirs for some real strings, and break one in for a year. Taylors are FINE sounding instruments, and except for the 600 series (maple back and sides have something to do with this I'm sure) are not overly bright. I just don't think they are worth the money they ask. You can get a high end Seagull in the $800-$1500 range that is ever bit the guitar a $4K Taylor is in the sound and build quality departments. No question.

Between a $650 Taylor and a comparably priced Seagull? Well, I'd take some bailing wire and a freight pallet over that sub-$700 Taylor.

High end Taylors are exceptionally nice (although WAY overpriced IMO) instruments. The low end stuff though, you just pay alot for the logo. I have never picked up a 1, 2, or 300 series that was even the least bit enticing, no matter what the price.

I understand what you're saying about them being expensive. I know that they are rather pricey; however, I have never owned a nice acoustic and I'm willing and (finally!) able to put out several hundred dollars to get a decent one.

Also, because I'm coming from the world of $149 Yamahas and $299 Epiphones, the Taylor sure seems like a nice guitar to me.

However, one particular Seagull at a local shop (http://www.acousticmusicrevival.com/rooms-seagull.html) seems to be a frontrunner right now. It's listed on the page I linked above and is called the CW GT QII. Unfortunately, they didn't have that particular model when I came in the other day, but I was able to try an S6 and really enjoyed it. Since the GT has similar construction, I assume it will be a similar-sounding guitar. I'd like to get my hands on one, though...

By the way, have you guys seen the TRIC case you can get with the Seagulls now? Pretty cool.

[TeleLubber]

I have never owned a Seagull, but I've played quite a few, definitely a great acoustic brand. I've owned a few Martins and one Taylor in my 30 yrs of playing. I am on the opposite end of the spectrum in opinion to some of the other comments posted here. My Taylor 414ce-LTD is by no means 'harsh' in the high end.. As a matter of fact it's probably the most beautiful and balanced acoustic I've ever heard, the bass end is just so full and clear without being too 'boomy'. I'm also very impressed with their electronics, you don't even need a direct box, and the sound is amazing! Unfortunately my Martins do not get the attention they used to now that I have this Taylor, they just seem too sterile by comparison. Taylor shipped with Elixir strings which feel nice at first but I went back to my regular phosphor bronze sets I use.. This one has a Cedar top.

FWIW my buddy has a Takamine with a really narrow neck he likes, and he paid 75 cash at pawn shop, the sound is every bit as good as alot of 'top-end' guitars I've heard.. As for how fat the neck is.. or what scale length is.. my hands get used to whatever neck is there in 5 min or less usually..

I had an Epiphone acoustic for a while that I gave to my son to beat up on.. and it sounds like a cardboard box with rubber bands compared to the Taylor. Use your ears. My two cents.

[NewGuy410]

Larrivee

[Jahmbie]

Seagulls have always impressed me with their quality and balanced sound for the price. In fact I'm impressed with all of the Godin/Seagull/A&L instruments I've played. They all sound great acoustically, which is what I judge them by first. For the sub-$1000 market, they would be my first choice.

Taylors are beautifully crafted instruments that have exceptional playability. I also agree that they seem overpriced in this marketplace, and their import line is definitely inferior to comparable North American produced instruments.

For a new instrument, if money were no object for me I'd go with a Collings or Larivee. Every one of their instruments I've played are absolutely extraordinary in terms of craftsmanship, tone, and playability. Not a bum in the lot.

FWIW I have a Korean-made Alvarez, mahogany top, that I bought for $100. The neck on it is a nice medium V and the width is no too narrow. It is not as punchy or bright as a spruce top, but it has a nice balance that is great for fingerstyle playing.

[jimd]

Buy the guitar that your gut tells you to buy. I have a Taylor 310 and like it very much. I shopped around and played a lot of guitars. I enjoyed the process and felt I got a great guitar. Everyone has an opinion. But you have to live with it. My personal example of that was I heard great things about Larrivees when I was shopping. I made sure I tried one before I pulled the trigger on a Taylor. I went right from the Larrivee dealer and bought the Taylor. I still can't figure out what people see in them.

Make sure you really like that wide neck. 1.8" is really wide. I have 1.75 and have been thinking about a narrower neck next time.

[brgminicooper]

Originally Posted by jimd

Buy the guitar that your gut tells you to buy. I have a Taylor 310 and like it very much. I shopped around and played a lot of guitars. I enjoyed the process and felt I got a great guitar. Everyone has an opinion. But you have to live with it. My personal example of that was I heard great things about Larrivees when I was shopping. I made sure I tried one before I pulled the trigger on a Taylor. I went right from the Larrivee dealer and bought the Taylor. I still can't figure out what people see in them.

Make sure you really like that wide neck. 1.8" is really wide. I have 1.75 and have been thinking about a narrower neck next time.

I do plan to buy the guitar to which have a "gut" reaction, but I primarily wanted to know if there are things to watch out for on them, like the "overly" bright tone of the Taylor or the exceptionally wide neck on the Seagull.

As for Larrivee... well... I never even looked at them because I thought they were well out of my price range. Is that not the case?

EDIT: Yep. Out of my price range.

[Telarkaster]

I was leaning towards getting a Taylor 310 or 314 CE before I ended up with my Seagull. The 200 and 100 series Taylors sounded okay (not fantastic), but didn't have as nice a neck as the 300 series. The 314 was wider than the 114 or 214 and had a different joint at the headstock. The 314 was also over $1000 so I took my time and thought about it.

Taylors are bright sounding, but if you plug them in with a band they sound good, they fit in nicely in the mix and don't get washed out.

When I sat down and played the Seagull in the store, the choice was obvious. The sound, the feel and the price were just too good, it was a no-brainer. I bought the Seagull.

[brgminicooper]

If I could get my local shop to cut me a deal on a Seagull like this one at Geartree.com (http://www.geartree.com/p-34986-seag...tric-case.aspx), that's probably what I'll get. The only drawback is that there's no on-board tuner with that model. Not really a big deal, though, because I have both a tuner pedal and a few Korg tuners sitt ing around.

[cotecj]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

As far as the bright tone, get rid of the damn rat-crap factory elixirs for some real strings, and break one in for a year. Taylors are FINE sounding instruments...

Good point about the strings. They Taylors that I've played that had different strings were much better sounding.

[telideli]

Excuse me if you'll already dimissed getting a YAMAHA. But I got one of these and I'm more than satisfied. I really don''t see a whole lot of difference in sound, build quality, and playability over others in the $500 range.

http://www.music123.com/Yamaha-FG730...50361.Music123

[otterhound]

Since I am from Pa. , I am required by law to say this . Martin 1 Series . If you are going to do it once , do it right . Maybe a 15 series . Plenty of good used Martins out there , especially at this time . Try the umgf .

[brgminicooper]

Telideli: First of all, I have not dismissed anything. I am definitely open to other suggestions. Thanks for letting me know about the Yamaha. I guess I hadn't thought about them because my first steel-stringed acoustic was a cheapo Yamaha. I never thought about their "better" offerings because I have equated them with entry-level stuff for many years now. Clearly, I was wrong, because the one you suggested fits the bill pretty closely, though I would rather have an A/E guitar. Something tells me that Yamaha makes that one in an A/E version, though.

For the record, I would be willing to consider any acoustic guitar with at least a 1 3/4" (or larger) nut width that has a solid top and can be had in the $500 - $650 range. I would prefer that it be A/E, but I don't think that's a deal-breaker for me since I could always add a pickup at a later date. I also like the idea of a shorter scale, but this isn't a deal-breaker, either.


Otterhound: Even before you mentioned a Martin, I thought about selling my Schecter PT and Kustom Double Barrel so that I could spend a little more and get a higher-quality acoustic. If I'm going to own an acoustic, I might as well quit screwing around and get a good one so that I don't find myself selling and buying every year or two. However, I know that if I get rid of my Schecter/Kustom combo, I'll regret it and want to spend more money trying to acquire an electric and amp. Maybe it's best to leave well-enough alone and stay in my current budget.

[franchelB]

As for me, the only thing that differentiates the Segaull and Taylor IS the price: One can buy a higher-end of the Seagull line for the price of a lower-end Taylor. But both brands produce decent sounding guitars, regardless of the price.
Personally, I like the sound of my friends' Seagull guitars, but I don't regret buying my Taylor 410E back in 1996!

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by brgminicooper

However, one particular Seagull at a local shop (http://www.acousticmusicrevival.com/rooms-seagull.html) seems to be a frontrunner right now. It's listed on the page I linked above and is called the CW GT QII. Unfortunately, they didn't have that particular model when I came in the other day, but I was able to try an S6 and really enjoyed it. Since the GT has similar construction, I assume it will be a similar-sounding guitar. I'd like to get my hands on one, though...

By the way, have you guys seen the TRIC case you can get with the Seagulls now? Pretty cool.

This is the exact model I have. I love it. If I had it to do over again, the only change I would make, is I would drive to the shop faster to buy it.

I bought mine to use a stunt double. I was flying to a lot of shows around the country a couple of years ago, and my D-35 was making me WAY too nervous. Baggage handlers, unpressurized holds with no climate control, people eyeing the case at baggage claim and looking squirrelly, the whole thing was just making me sick. So I went on the hunt for a decent budget-priced flight-gig guitar. I bought the D-35 as a workhorse beater to wear out, but in the end, it was just too much money for me to watch get destroyed or stolen.

My perfect stunt guitar had to be under a grand, had to play GREAT, had to sound great plugged in, and had to sound good enough unplugged that I could stand to to play it that way and be able to write effectively with it. I know, I'm spoiled, but I like what I like. If I had to gig and write with a $200 plywood guitar, I'd make it happen, but I don't have to, so I don't.

I tried Takamine, Ovation, low end Taylors, Alvarez,Yamaha, Larrivee stuff, low end Martins, Parkwoods, Epiphone Masterbilt, you name it. All were nice in their own ways, but the Seagull was a cut above in every department, and it was made in North America. I played my S6+ CW GT QII for all of about 5 minutes, and paid the man at the counter for it.

In the more than two years since then, I have only gigged with another acoustic twice, and both times I missed the Seagull. I still record with my higher end pieces (although I have used the Seagull on some tracks too, and very successfully) but it is by far and away my favorite gig acoustic of all time. I just got back from a family vacation that I piggy backed onto a short string of shows in the Southwest, and the Seagull was with me the whole time. Gigging, porch picking, sitting in with people, mellowing out by the fire, whatever. If I can only take one guitar somewhere, this is gonna be it for as long as it holds together for me. FWIW, I was not all that impressed with the straight S-6 models at the same shop. They were nice for under four bills for sure. A hell of a lot nicer than anything else in their price range, but wouldn't cut it for what I was after. The GT QII was just a monster by comparison.

[hippietim]

While Seagulls are nice instruments, I've never played one that "spoke to me". It was never a problem putting them down and playing something else.

OTOH, I love Taylor acoustics. I've never played a bad one. They sound great, play great, look great.

That's why there's chocolate and vanilla!

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by NewGuy410

Larrivee

What he said.

I discovered Larrivees after liking a Seagull in a shop and wanting a Taylor. I've owned two.

Just delay the gratification long enough to play copies of these guitars mentioned and the decision should be easy.

The last time I was aware Taylor changed their lowest 2 series to have laminated back and sides and a Larrivee did not.

[Telarkaster]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

I tried Takamine, Ovation, low end Taylors, Alvarez,Yamaha, Larrivee stuff, low end Martins, Parkwoods, Epiphone Masterbilt, you name it. All were nice in their own ways, but the Seagull was a cut above in every department, and it was made in North America. I played my S6+ CW GT QII for all of about 5 minutes, and paid the man at the counter for it.

That was my exact experience, except mine is the mini-jumbo with QII. I just knew when I tried it that it was the one I was looking for.

About Larivees: the best acoustic that I've ever played was my friend's Larivee, with blend knob for bridge pickup and soundhole mic. Smoothest action ever. I forget the model. I tried lots of other Larivees in the store and couldn't find one as good.

One thing about Seagulls: try the neck first to make sure you like it, it's different from most other acoustics (probably why I liked it so much).

[brgminicooper]

Well, I went back to the local shop today and asked if they had either of the Seagull cutaway models I like. They had neither. The sales guy pointed out a couple of other CW models, but they were at least twice the price that I want to spend right now.

[Parma_TeleMon]

Originally Posted by jimd

Buy the guitar that your gut tells you to buy.

Or, rather, the one your soul tells you to buy. Disclaimer: I own a Taylor 814CE that's hands down the finest acoustic guitar I've ever played, but by no means is it the most expensive.

[brgminicooper]

Well, I did it. I purchased the Seagull S6 this morning. I was going to try for one of the cutaway models I listed earlier in this thread, but I don't want to buy an acoustic guitar without being able to put my hands on it and try it out first.

There was one S6 left in the store near my house - the grain was perfect, it sounded great, and it seems easier to play than other acoustics that I've tried, presumably because of the wider neck and shorter scale.

Overall, very pleased with my purchase. If you're ever in Englewood, CO, stop in at Acoustic Music Revival and talk to the folks there. They are very pleasant and knowledgeable.

[jgillard]

Nice! Which S6 did you end up getting? They come with either a spruce top or a cedar top. I personally have the S6 spruce in the coastline finish. I purchased it used and it's a great guitar.

[musicalmartin]

How do you tell from playing in a store what guitar is really best ?.Some might have old strings that have already taken a beating from other would be purchasers .Same for electrics .My old Harmony Sovereign was always very sensitive to strings and the age of them also . Some makes made it sound much better .This was when I played folk clubs in the 60's so they took a hammering flat picking 2-3 nights a week. Several high end acoustics I tried recently sound very dead while some cheaper ones sound better ..The Martins still came out on top ,always does for me .

[OM 21]

Martin. Wait, what was the question again?

[brgminicooper]

Originally Posted by jgillard

Nice! Which S6 did you end up getting? They come with either a spruce top or a cedar top. I personally have the S6 spruce in the coastline finish. I purchased it used and it's a great guitar.

Mine is the cedar-topped model with the wider nut. I just spent about an hour with it, and I'm really enjoying it. The wide, flat fretboard is really nice.

As for your Martin fans... well, if there were a Martin in that price range, I might have considered it. And, you're right, a quick play in the store doesn't tell me everything there is to know about a guitar, but it still gives me more of a sense of how it'll feel, play, and sound than just picking one from an internet vendor and having it delivered to my door.

[zombywoof]

I vote for the Seagull but then again ain't much of a contest for me cuz I simply do not like Taylors.

[Telarkaster]

Congratulations brgminicooper! I'm glad you like that neck.

[brgminicooper]

Originally Posted by Telarkaster

Congratulations brgminicooper! I'm glad you like that neck.

Thanks. I enjoy this neck so much, that I now realize that most electric guitars will have necks that are just too narrow for me to use. To that end, (even though I said it already in this thread) I really am thinking about selling my Schecter/Kustom combo. Further, I find that with that setup, I get too interested in flipping switches and twiddling dials to actually get any real practice in.

With this acoustic, I just want to try to play and learn new stuff.

[otterhound]

Good to hear that you have found what you want . Enjoy ! You will eventually fall to the Martin bug . Wide neck , hmmm. Sounds like an OM to me .

[brgminicooper]

Originally Posted by otterhound

You will eventually fall to the Martin bug.

Not until I win the lottery I won't. :-)

Truly, one of the many reasons I'm sold on Seagulls is that they seem to ffer a lot of value for the money, in addition to having the wide neck and flat fretboard. I really don't think that there are many (any?) other guitars out there that offer that combo.

For the record, I just listed my Schecter and Kustom amp on Craigslist. They're going.

[OM 21]

I know that G&L offers custom necks that can be had as wide as 1 3/4" with a 12" radius. Almost OM like on a tele body style.

[brgminicooper]

Originally Posted by OM 21

I know that G&L offers custom necks that can be had as wide as 1 3/4" with a 12" radius. Almost OM like on a tele body style.

Funny you should mention that; my first "serious" electric guitar was an ASAT Classic that I had been looking at for quite a while. Ultimately, I got rid of it because the neck was too narrow and I couldn't do what I wanted with it. It killed me to let it go too because I really liked it. That was the Indonesian-made model, though.

I doubt a custom American G&L is going to happen for the same reason that a Martin isn't going to happen: money.

[Telarkaster]

Originally Posted by brgminicooper

With this acoustic, I just want to try to play and learn new stuff.

Holy Smokes! Sounds like you got a winner! You can't put a price on a guitar that makes you want to play and learn.

About Martins: great sound. Wish I had a D-28. Wish I won the lottery. Otterhound, I'll take another look at the OM series, I was concentrating on the Dreads and found the necks too thin for me to spend that much on, thanks!

[BERT1FLORES]

I have had a S6 cedar top for about 5 years now. I truly believe the sound has opened up because of it's age and I swear it seems to me it sounds better and better all the time.
What I realy like though is the short scale neck. It's the jeep of acoustic boxes. I really don't take care of it like I know I should...it does not stay in a case, ever. It gets sat down on a concrete porch, it has been dropped but it always comes back for more and I was just noticing the other day that it is literaly filthy/stained.

I love hi end gits but I'm afraid to scratch them so the S6 is for me.
You made a very good choice.

[otterhound]

Originally Posted by Telarkaster

Holy Smokes! Sounds like you got a winner! You can't put a price on a guitar that makes you want to play and learn.

About Martins: great sound. Wish I had a D-28. Wish I won the lottery. Otterhound, I'll take another look at the OM series, I was concentrating on the Dreads and found the necks too thin for me to spend that much on, thanks!

The OM series are great guitars and some think their best . My 000X Hippie L is in essence a laminate constructed OM with a 1 11/16" nut instead of the 1 3/4" OM . It may be made of fake materials , but it is a joy to play and sounds great , even for laminates . If you do not like the thin neck , consider an OMV model . Different neck profile . The 000 body is far more comfortable than the Dread body for me . Don't ignore the 15 series . Not all Martin's are rosewood . I have a D15 that is a real cannon , but it is not comfortable for me because of the large Dread body . The new 1 series is nice as well . As far as scratches an dings . You spend more on a car and these things add character .

[Charlie Bernstein]

The short answer: Both Taylor and Seagull are good. Get a guitar you like!

The long answer: Of mass-production North American guitars, I think there are better values than Taylor. On the higher end, Martin and Gibson, on the lower, Larivee and Seagull.

And here's my usual plug: You can usually get the most guitar for the dollar if you buy used. "New" is the most expensive word in the English language!

[otterhound]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

The short answer: Both Taylor and Seagull are good. Get a guitar you like!

The long answer: Of mass-production North American guitars, I think there are better values than Taylor. On the higher end, Martin and Gibson, on the lower, Larivee and Seagull.

And here's my usual plug: You can usually get the most guitar for the dollar if you buy used. "New" is the most expensive word in the English language!

+1 on the word new . Is leftie #2 ?