I'm building a 000 from a kit

[RickG501]

Originally Posted by enalnitram

thanks for posting those pics, RnB.

an incredible thing happened in the saga of my guitar build today. I attended a gathering of the members of OLF today in Lake Zurich, Illinois, and I won the top prize of the door prizes handed out: a free finish by a guy that has just set up a business, and that does work with the same kind of finishes that Taylor does: Poly hardened by UV light or something like that. Joe White. Nice guy. And his work looks really nice. I had been planning to shoot it myself with nitro, probably from those stew mac spray cans. but now i'll have this pro finish done.

"...and the guitar gods smiled on him and it was good."

What a twist of fate, way to go.

[enalnitram]

Early in the build, this was my favorite tool. It's just an inexpensive small flat chisel which was part of a wood carving set obtained from a hobby shop.



At this stage in the build, this has become my favorite tool: a wood scraper. Man, is this thing handy, now that I've figured out how to sharpen it.



Mark Swanson helped again with routing. I guess the goal here hasn't been for me to become a complete guitar maker. The goal has been for me to do the things myself where I know I can get a good result. I'm not afraid (or too proud) to ask (or beg) for help!



Mark has this great rig in his shop for routing bindings. It would take me years to get the same result as he does here, in just a few minutes.

[enalnitram]

The routed binding channels could not have been done better. They are very clean and there are no screw-ups at all.



Many builders will glue and tape their bindings and purflings at the same time. I decided to first do the purfling only, in order to have more control and reduce the possibility of gaps between the top and the herringbone purfling.



Top and back purflings are all taped down. I used titebond for the herringbone purfling on the top and gorilla glue for the thin striped plastic purfling on the back. I let it sit overnight.



I think the herringbone looks pretty good.

[RickG501]

"Ain't to proud to beg"....shouldn't there be some music going on here?

It's startin' to come together hey? I can't wait to see the finish.

[enalnitram]

Before doing the routing, Mark pointed this out to me. I had no idea, because I have never done this before. But he says that those rounded out areas near the bottom of the mortise joint should not be there. My end block might have been a mess-up. It sure looked intentional to me. I'll fill in the gaps with epoxy and place a shim over top of it. It'll be a bit of work to get this corrected.



A shot of the whole top before installing the maple binding on the top:



Here's another problem. I installed the tail wedge off center! In addition to this problem, it has been bugging me that I didn't do a very good job installing it, and that it also doesn't match my maple binding all that great. I'll tear it out and try again. Hopefully, the third time will be a charm.

You can also probably see where I got the herringbone joint off-center, also. I corrrected it, and after sanding it down a little, it is barely noticeable. It isn't a mistake if you can fix it.



Here are the maple bindings next to the tail wedge. See? It's not a very good match. I thought it wouldn't bother me, but it does.

[enalnitram]

I really used a lot of tape when I glued down the maple binding on the top. I didn't want ANY gaps.



Here's a shot of the whole top, purfling and binding installed, after removing all the tape. Just like I had hoped, there are no gaps anywhere.



Top purfling and binding detail. I'm going to need to scrape and sand these smooth, all the way around the guitar, twice. (Once for the top and once for the back.) It's going to take a while.



Here's a shot of the guitar with the neck and the bridge plate put in place. Except for the few things I'll be fixing or re-doing, everything is coming together pretty nicely, overall. Hmmmm, what do y'all think about sunburst?

[edd677]

Thats lookin great! Love the binding. I am starting my own build pretty soon but need to do a bunch of reading first, have you read Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology? Im told its sort of the bible for acoustic building. As for the sunburst... if thats what your into... man

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by edd677

Thats lookin great! Love the binding. I am starting my own build pretty soon but need to do a bunch of reading first, have you read Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology? Im told its sort of the bible for acoustic building. As for the sunburst... if thats what your into... man

I haven't read that one. I should. I've read most of Cumpiano's book. I also read Bill Cory's book about building Martin kits. he goes through the steps using a 000 kit in that book, which is great, since that's what I have. I also read a whole bunch of blogs. as I have encountered problems, I have posted my various questions on various forums such as this one, OLF, kitguitarsforum, MIMF, etc.

I don't know if I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I first got the urge to build a kit guitar in about 1996. It has taken me this long to build up the courage. so I've been thinking about it and reading about it all this time, on and off. good for you for wanting to do it. it has been one of the most rewarding things I've done. to think that I gave up playing online video games in the evenings in order to do it...

I have never seen a Martin sunburst that I've liked. they have too much black on the edges. I think I really like this one, though:

[enalnitram]

oh, ... duh! GTT is Cumpiano's book. never mind me... it has been a long time.

and yeah, it's pretty much essential.

[edd677]

Originally Posted by enalnitram

I haven't read that one. I should. I've read most of Cumpiano's book. I also read Bill Cory's book about building Martin kits. he goes through the steps using a 000 kit in that book, which is great, since that's what I have. I also read a whole bunch of blogs. as I have encountered problems, I have posted my various questions on various forums such as this one, OLF, kitguitarsforum, MIMF, etc.

I don't know if I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I first got the urge to build a kit guitar in about 1996. It has taken me this long to build up the courage. so I've been thinking about it and reading about it all this time, on and off. good for you for wanting to do it. it has been one of the most rewarding things I've done. to think that I gave up playing online video games in the evenings in order to do it...

I have never seen a Martin sunburst that I've liked. they have too much black on the edges. I think I really like this one, though:

A lot can happen when you give up video games man!
I used to race motocross but had a bad crash last year which ended the fun. Figured I would take up guitar building instead. Im just finishing up an ash telecaster, and have rosewood and cedar on the way for my acoustic. Still need to collect a bunch more materials and figure out what all I need for tools. Picking up a bandsaw soon, kind of unnecessary but what the hey. I am going to build a go bar deck too.

As for the sunburst... I have never really been much for them, but that one looks pretty good. I am sure you have plans for your next build already?

Have you seen this guys blog? Built an OM in his kitchen from scratch... I have learnt quite a bit from reading it:
http://acousticguitarbuild.blogspot.com/

[enalnitram]

Yeah, I have seen that one. It's one of the more helpful ones.

Your bandsaw will come in handy. for this current guitar project, I used one to make the mold I used. it wasn't perfect, but it was better than paying $100.

I thought I was going to be a one shot acoustic builder. but my father in law has a stash of maple, redwood, and cherry. some of the cherry pieces are nice and big, quartersawn.

hmmmmm.....

[edd677]

Originally Posted by enalnitram

I thought I was going to be a one shot acoustic builder.

A what? never heard of that

[Yman]

Phenomenal progress. I hope to be in your lucky shoes one day. I guess i have to pick up GTT first though...

Great idea on the curling iron for the binding. Even though it wasn't originally yours, I hadn't heard of it before.

Thanks a ton for getting me to a bunch of forums too! My reading list is full now!

And my vote is for the sunburst! Probably your only chance for a free professional sunburst.

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by Yman

Phenomenal progress. I hope to be in your lucky shoes one day. I guess i have to pick up GTT first though...

Great idea on the curling iron for the binding. Even though it wasn't originally yours, I hadn't heard of it before.

Thanks a ton for getting me to a bunch of forums too! My reading list is full now!

And my vote is for the sunburst! Probably your only chance for a free professional sunburst.

thanks! one of the online goldmines is frets.com. lots of great tutorial there. he makes it easy to understand and follow.

I did win a free guitar body finish, and I'll have to pay extra to have the neck done, and still more extra for the sunburst. I'm not complaining, though.

[enalnitram]

I've changed my mind about the sunburst. now I think I'd prefer something like this:

[enalnitram]

I couldn't just leave the headstock blank, but I had no strong ideas about what I really wanted to do with it. I wasn't exactly crazy about going out and buying abalone and doing an inlay like everyone else does. so this morning I had the idea to just use a piece of figured maple and do an inlay with that. it'll be the same piece that the tail wedge and neck cap will come from. I also ran across an image I sorta like. how's this for a design?

[edd677]

I really like that design! Simple (sorta) and Elegant. I think the font could compliment it a bit better though. My avatar is what I want to inlay on my headstock, if I ever make it that far .

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by edd677

I really like that design! Simple (sorta) and Elegant. I think the font could compliment it a bit better though. My avatar is what I want to inlay on my headstock, if I ever make it that far .

Thanks. I think you're right about the font. I just don't know what it could be. I tried a bunch in MS word and that was the one that looked like it would work the best, but it still isn't exactly right. Nothing that I have found, is.

There's an artist's website where people can have a blog and share their designs. a young lady drew that clover, and labelled it as being a tattoo. I really liked it as soon as I saw it. I told her I wanted to inlay it on a guitar but haven't heard back yet. I think she's brilliant.

anyhow...

last night I re-re-installed a tail wedge. the trick to making it work was to use a thinner piece of maple. I bought a sheet of maple veneer that had some nice subtle flame in it at a Woodcraft store. it's about 1/16" thick. much easier to cut into shapes than the 1/8" pieces I was using before.



(I wetted it with alcohol for looks)

I also got started on my inlay. I used a dremel and my trusty old cheapo hobby shop wood carving set. This is as far as I got before the dremel made the tips of my fingers turn numb. I'll pick it up again in a few days, when they'll hopefully be returned to normal. I'll maybe proceed using an exacto.

[enalnitram]

I carved this saddle out of bone, using a dremel. I've only had the dremel for about a week. I'm borrowing it from my father-in-law. There's nothing like the smell of burning bone. The ebony bridge came from CF Martin. I didn't make that. This was my first saddle-making experience. I'm really pleased with how it turned out. So right after this, I tried to get started on a nut using an oversized micarta blank. it was my first nut-making attempt, also. Well, I totally botched it. I think the bone is much easier to work with than micarta. so I bought a big piece of cow bone at a pet store. I'll try again.



All of the binding has been finished, scraped, and sanded. The tail wedge has been installed. The body is now finished, except for just a few small gaps that I'll fill with wood dust and super glue.

[RnB]

Originally Posted by enalnitram

I tried to get started on a nut using an oversized micarta blank. it was my first nut-making attempt, also. Well, I totally botched it. I think the bone is much easier to work with than micarta. so I bought a big piece of cow bone at a pet store. I'll try again.

In the end, I think you'll be better off w/ bone for your nut material rather than the Micarta. Practice makes perfect! Can't tell you how many nuts I cut-up B4 I did one correctly.

If the cow bone doesn't work, try here: I get stuff from them regularly. It's good quality & reasonable prices.

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by RnB

In the end, I think you'll be better off w/ bone for your nut material rather than the Micarta. Practice makes perfect! Can't tell you how many nuts I cut-up B4 I did one correctly.

If the cow bone doesn't work, try here: I get stuff from them regularly. It's good quality & reasonable prices.

thanks for the tip. when I purchased tuning machines (the grover nickel sta-tite 18:1 ratio ones) I added a bleached bone nut blank to my order. so we'll see how that goes.

the last few days I have been working on my inlay some more. but that went badly also. I have no inlay experience, and I'm finding I lack the proper tools, as well as any idea of just how slowly one must go in order to do a proper job. while working on the inlay piece, i broke it a lot of times and superglued it back together. I viewed it as a practice exercise and just kept going. but if I want an inlay, I'll need to do it over. this pic is about 2.5 times bigger than it is in reality.



I also worked on my neck fit. I used an 80 degree block to sand the sides of my tenon so that the neck would slowly sink down into the mortise. I also chiseled out spaces in my cheeks similar to those in this pic.

I used 150 grit. I only made about 5 strokes at a time, alternating sides. I did this for about 90 minutes, or maybe longer. I got the fingerboard down close to the top -- about 1/8". It felt like it was going so well! Like it was too easy. The neck was aligned with the center line on the top. there was no up/down shimmy. both sides of the neck were at the same height from the top. It looked like my straightedge sitting on the top of the frets was pointing towards the top of my bridge/saddle. I thought I was home free on the first try!

so I proceeded, much more slowly. and as the top of the tenon sunk further down into the mortise, a side-to-side, very slight looseness began to be introduced. my suspicion was that the angle I was sanding was a little flatter than the interior of the mortise, causing looseness. so I put chalk on the mortise surfaces, and inserted the tenon. I chiseled (very carefully with tiny strokes) the areas where the chalk made contact with the tenon. but this just made the looseness worse!

and now that the top of the tenon is about 1/32" above the guitar's top, there is a side-to-side looseness of about 1/16", as well as a more subtle, yet present, up-and-down looseness.

I've since learned that I should have moved to the chalk-and-chisel much sooner to get a tight fit. oh, well. I'll be building up the tenon with mahogany shims tonight.

lots of failures lately.

so here's a pic of the detail of the binding on the back, after scraping. with things not going so well presently I like to look at the stuff that did turn out ok ...



more soon.

[RickG501]

I like that clover design! That will look cool on the headstock. I'd probably leave out the letters and just let people guess where the guitar came from. If it were me that is.

If you have trouble with the inlay or the route you might check with a trophy shop or a sign making shop. A lot of them have the latest laser cut machines you give them a jpg of the pic and they load it into their computer and those vector cutters do the rest. They do very clean work too. Just a suggestion.

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by RickG501

I like that clover design! That will look cool on the headstock. I'd probably leave out the letters and just let people guess where the guitar came from. If it were me that is.

If you have trouble with the inlay or the route you might check with a trophy shop or a sign making shop. A lot of them have the latest laser cut machines you give them a jpg of the pic and they load it into their computer and those vector cutters do the rest. They do very clean work too. Just a suggestion.

Thanks. It's funny you should say this. I've already given up on the idea of lettering and am planning to do the clover only.

The letters didn't really match, plus it would make more than twice the work!

I haven't fully given up on the inlay idea, but I'm still not sure how I'm going to make it happen, since I lack the proper tools. so, this is a great suggestion. I've been toying with idea of having someone cut the inlay piece for me out of abalone. but even if I do that, or your idea, I am not going to be able to get a clean hole dug into the peghead to accept the inlay. If I want it to look nice there is no way around me buying the tools to do it. so I'm scratching my head about that.

In other news, tuning machines are on the way. I also spoke to Colette, whom makes the Greven Tor-tis pickguards, on the phone yesterday. She is going to send me several, so that I'll have the opportunity to pick the one I like best and send the others back. I'm going to get a 30's 000 guard.

I learned recently that the stew-mac fingerboard clamps are the exact same thing as "RV Multi Clamps" sold at WalMart in the Automotive/RV section, but for half the price! glad I learned this just in time.

I got started up again on the dovetail neck joint last night. Yesterday I picked up some solid mahogany at Woodcraft, 1/8" thick, and not veneer, to make some shims. I glued them to the insides of the tenon and bypassed the whole sanding thing with the 80-degree sanding block. I'm mostly using a chisel and chalk now. I think things are going much better.

As of right now, the top of the neck is still about 1/2" above the top of the guitar, and I can feel the joint "grip" in a way that it never did on the first attempt.

[RickG501]

The laser cutter gizmos can cut both pieces. They can do the headstock (easier if it's veneer cover piece, but still do-able if it's on the neck itself) they just have one setting for outside the image or inside the image. I'd investigate it at any rate, it'll make your job easier.

It's looking great, BTW.

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by RickG501

The laser cutter gizmos can cut both pieces. They can do the headstock (easier if it's veneer cover piece, but still do-able if it's on the neck itself) they just have one setting for outside the image or inside the image. I'd investigate it at any rate, it'll make your job easier.

It's looking great, BTW.

thanks! I found this place near where I live.

http://www.advancedlasercutting.com/

I submitted a project description and look forward to receiving their quote.

[enalnitram]

Worked on the neck fit over the weekend.

This will be my second attempt at shaping the dovetail tenon to fit into the mortise on the guitar's body. As I slowly chisel away wood from the tenon, it sinks down into the mortise until the neck is level with the guitar's top. On the first attempt, when I reached that point, the fit was loose. Now I think I have a better idea how to make the fit tighter.



I took little pieces of mahogany from my kerfed lining, and filled the gaps in my dovetail mortise.



I put chalk on the inside of the mortise. When I insert the tenon into the mortise and then remove it, the chalk reveals the higher areas on the tenon. So I carefully chisel those areas, and then repeat, a few hundred times, until I get a tight fit and the neck is level with the top of the guitar.



Areas with chalk on the sides of the tenon get chiseled away, just a tiny bit each time.

[enalnitram]

This is the end of a jig I made to help me determine if the neck is pointing straight down the center of the guitar's body. it's a long piece of poplar. I cut the edges of it on the other end to fit the sides of the fingerboard. I strap it down on that end and then check here to see if the neck is centered. Because poplar is susceptible to warpage, I don't think I'll use this jig again on another guitar, if/when I make another one.



Here's a straight-on view of the neck tenon. You can see the mahogany shims I've added to the sides and also onto the bottom (the top of the triangle in this picture). It may have been unnecessary to add wood to that area, but the mortise is about that much deeper than the tenon, so I've added pieces of mahogany there, too.



Here's a pile of mahogany shavings from working on the neck fit.



The fit is getting closer! Maybe just a few more dozen times of chalk-insert-remove-chisel-repeat, and I'll have a good fit. It may not look like a good fit, but the neck is only resting in the mortise. (I don't have it pushed in all the way). The trick is to not ruin it. By chiseling more wood away, it's very easy to make fit loose. I have to remove just the right amount of wood from precisely the right spots, or risk starting all over again with new shims.



Man, has this dovetail been tricky. It's difficult to write down how to do it, or to read about it and learn, I guess. You just have to get in there and do it. I've learned that a tiny bit of excessive amounts of wood on the edges of the tenon can help make the joint be tight side-to-side, but loose up-and-down. The fit has to be perfect.

If any of you more experienced guys notice something that I am doing wrong, I'd really appreciate it if you can fill me in.

[still_fiddlin]

Besides keeping the neck on center while fitting, you need to be aware of neck angle, so your bridge and saddle height work out. You can make adjustments by angling the fingerboard, but you have to be close, so your fingerboard thickness is "normal" and you end up with a bridge and saddle that is also going to give the best sound.

A piece of aluminum, like a "yardstick" can be taped to check center, too.

P.S. I love 000s. I still have a mold. Unfortunately, I haven't built any for almost 30 years, but retirement is getting closer. Here's a few pix. I had one of those crappy 110 cameras back then, so nothing has survived except these few.

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by still_fiddlin

Besides keeping the neck on center while fitting, you need to be aware of neck angle, so your bridge and saddle height work out. You can make adjustments by angling the fingerboard, but you have to be close, so your fingerboard thickness is "normal" and you end up with a bridge and saddle that is also going to give the best sound.

A piece of aluminum, like a "yardstick" can be taped to check center, too.

P.S. I love 000s. I still have a mold. Unfortunately, I haven't built any for almost 30 years, but retirement is getting closer. Here's a few pix. I had one of those crappy 110 cameras back then, so nothing has survived except these few.

Very nice! I have been checking neck angle using a metal straight edge. the top of the fingerboard points right at the top of the bridge. my ebony bridge is pretty thick. if anything, it would be nice if I can lower it by sanding the bottom of it, and in so doing, also remove some of the mass from the bridge. because the neck and the neck block were made to go together, it will only take minimal adjusting to make it right.

[BottyGuy]

I have no stills in fine woodworking, but your neck fitting problems reminded me of a video I saw of the Martin factory, I was amazed that even in a pretty large volume production facility the neck fitting was a labor intensive process with lots of chisel skill required. Look at the end of this video:

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by BottyGuy

I have no stills in fine woodworking, but your neck fitting problems reminded me of a video I saw of the Martin factory, I was amazed that even in a pretty large volume production facility the neck fitting was a labor intensive process with lots of chisel skill required.

There's another video out there where they show another Martin factory worker, a woman, doing the same job. I don't recall where I saw the clip.

I'm amazed by how that guy takes off so much wood so quickly and still gets it perfect. I go much slower than that.

[BottyGuy]

Originally Posted by enalnitram

There's another video out there where they show another Martin factory worker, a woman, doing the same job. I don't recall where I saw the clip....

That was the clip I was trying to find to go with my post, but I couldn't remember where I'd seen it either. That one shows the entire painstaking process better, but even she seems to take decent chunks of wood off as she does the fitting.

[enalnitram]

Originally Posted by BottyGuy

That was the clip I was trying to find to go with my post, but I couldn't remember where I'd seen it either. That one shows the entire painstaking process better, but even she seems to take decent chunks of wood off as she does the fitting.

Found it:

http://www.harmony-central.com/theat...our_video.html

go to "Martin Factory Tour: Part 3"

It starts at about 5'18"

[enalnitram]

I ruined the micarta nut blank that came with my kit, so I bought a bone at a pet store so that I could have lots of chances at making a nut. I cut through it with a hack saw. It didn't take as long as I thought it would.



A few hours later, here's the result. I picked up a belt sander at a yard sale last weekend for $25. This the first thing I made with it. It's ok, but not great. I'll probably try again, but not today.



Tonight I also finished the neck joint. It feels like I've been working on this part of it forever.

It took a couple of attempts, as well as about 4 mahogany shims.

[enalnitram]

I ordered these online last week. the Grover tuning machines with the 18:1 ratio seemed like the best deal for the money. And I like the look, too.



The fingerboard hasn't been glued on yet, but here's what it looks like today with the bridge, nut and fingerboard set in place where they will be.



I'm aiming to have ready for finish by the middle of June. And I'm leaning towards a natural finish, not sunburst, as of today. But that could change.

[enalnitram]

After seeing how much trouble I was having with my inlay, Mark Swanson offered again to help (ie. do it for me).

Here's the inlay being inserted onto the peghead.

We changed the image a little to make it easier to do.



While at Mark's place I also was able to use his drill press. Here's what the peghead will look like with the tuners on.



I'm thinking I should have made that inlay a little smaller. It looks a lot crowded on there. Oh well.

And doesn't it look like the tuners are kind of bunched together on there? Crap, the holes matched a Martin template, so I don't know what to say.



And my 'g' tuner is a little bit lower than my 'd' tuner. But this homemade guitar has dozens of these kinds of inconsistencies. It's part of the charm.

[enalnitram]

I also got the heel cap glued on and sanded today.



A guy that I work with gave me the piece of maple I used for the heel cap. It has some nice flame in it.

[JCSouthpawtele]

Originally Posted by Jerry J

I believe you can buy a Martin kit directly from Martin, so you can have the real McCoy.

My dad found a guitar at a garage sale for 10 bucks with electric strings on it. It looked just like a D35 Martin...took it to his repair guy and the guy said it was a kit. put together buy a very proffessional luthier because of the quailty of the glue lines and overall work....Looking inside it had the kit stamp on the neck block.

[enalnitram]

well, i decided i couldn't live with the tuners bunched up together like that, and two string potentially bumping into two posts.



so i plugged four of the holes and plan to drill them out again slightly closer to the nut...

[enalnitram]