Suggestions for 1st acoustic

[eryque]

After much prodding from Mike Rice & others, it's time for me to consider purchasing my first real acoustic guitar, and I'd appreciate advice from you guys.

Budget is probably $500, so I'm looking at low-end stuff. I don't need a built-in pickup, so maybe that'll let me get a better value. Used guitars are fine, too.

I've never been a huge fan of the dreadnaught sound, I always thought they were too muddy and percussive sounding, but maybe it's just because of the low-end guitars I've tried.

As for styles, I play mostly blues-influenced rootsy type stuff. Lots of strumming, 7th & 9th chords, and I don't want it to sound too muddy. I happened to be able to play a Clapton signature guitar and it was just about perfect, only $2000 too expensive. It seemed to project very well, I don't know if the sound from smaller body size would get lost with other instruments around or not.

[Bob Mc]

and although I wound up with a used low end Martin here's a few I saw that I enjoyed playing:
Saga Blueridge BR 140-160 series; those are D's but each one had a companion 000 size (BR143-163 I think)
Lotsa bang for the buck Chinese made; they sound great but 'new'. Not sure how they'll age, and resale value is suspect. Check the specs; hybolic bracing, yadda yadda.
Cort Earth; Korean made, same comments as Saga, I did play a OOO that was outstanding.
Locally I almost bought a used cedar topped Alvarez, with sexy sloped shoulders. Only cedar top I've ever played; sounded great.
Taylor has some in your range and Breedlove has an import coming out that will be built overseas and setup in OR.
Eldelry is doing them for about 400 with case.
I've seen the lowend Martins 000-1 go for around 550, that'd be a sweet one for you.

[Teletwang]

eryque,do yourself a favor & buy used.At 500 dollars there are plenty of
quality, familiar models to choose from.I'm not saying the imports are
bad but you really are limiting your choice to something you may soon outgrow.

[Charlie Bernstein]

i'm with teletwang - buy used fer sher. plenty of dreads sound great, and smaller guitars do, too. the big difference is loudness - bigger is louder, surprise. old strings will always sound muddy - fanatics change their strings every week or two. (i change 'em every year or two.)

i'm sure you can find a good deal on a used low-end taylor, guild, gibson, or martin. and even some old harmonys and kays can be a total hoot. have a friend who just bought an archtop single-cutaway kay for $350, and he's happier than a pig in the brown.

i stay happy longest with plain, generic-looking axes - i get tired of looking at the same pointless frills every day. ('course, i never got any tattoos for the same reason, so consider the source.)

tuners can be replaced later, so it's no a big deal if they're dicey. and a bad finish isn't going to hold back your playing at all. and it'll make you look a hell of a lot more soulful. (a good negotiating strategy is to act real worried about finish checking, dings, and other totally cosmetic flaws.)

string buzzes can usually be corrected cheaply - and if you buy from a retailer, you can usually get the store to de-buzz the guitar (and do other set-up as well) as part of the deal.

cracks are okay if they're stable - if the guitar has cracks, ask the seller how old the cracks are. test them to make sure there's no give. (my gibson lg-0 cost $380 retail maybe four years ago. it has two top cracks, but they're over braces, so the guitar is structurally sound.)

on the other hand, a warped neck or a top that's buckling at the bridge will never get better, so avoid those. and remember that a neck reset could cost as much as the guitar, so be satisfied that it's sitting straight before you buy.

happy hunting - only about three things are more fun than buying a guitar!

[Geno]

lots of good used acoustics and beware of the necks.Don't get a cheepo you will always want the better one.I have a pre lawsuit Takamine has a cracked headstock,cracked top crack on back and the sides,but a good straight neck.I have been giging and playing it for years in this condition.Been told they used a perminant glue for neck and thats why it still stays straight.Nothing beats the high end acoustics though.Iv'e been wanting a used Martin Alternative X for giging and to save my Takamine.Just been missing them on E-Bay.One went this morning for $335.

[bgwatts]

Used is your first choice.Don't rule out one with a built in transducer in the bridge.The electronics do NOT take anything away from the acoustic sound,and sooner or later you will plug it in anyway.If you don't plug in ,the next guy will.(as in re-sale value).
I TOTALY AGREE with your assesment of Dreadnoughts.They just aren't for everybody.I finaly came to realize that I can't play them as well because of their size.It's like trying to get your arm around a volkswagon beetle!
I have slowly switched to thinline electric/acoustics(Godin A6)for plugged in stuff and "parlor" guitars and "grand concerts" and "000"sized stuff for REAL acoustic action.
I'd also o put in my vote for CEDAR tops instead of spruce.I haven't played a cedar guitar yet that I haven't liked,even in the 300 dollar range(Seagull,associated with Godin).
Now,that being said,...........I recently played a Larivee ,spruce top, parlor,new,$500 that just absolutly sang to me.
So I guess that means ....play everything.Even if they're $200 .Even if they're $1000.Even if ther're cedar or spruce.Even if the body is big or small.
Acoustic are just SO sensitive to the wood ,the type of construction,etc.Not like electrics,where the basic sound is Fender Telecaster or Gibson LesPaul and you can adjust the sound just by swapping pickups.Now the sound is ALL guitar and your strings are the only variable.

[eryque]

Thanks for the tips, guys. Mike Rice came up yesterday and we hit every shop in the area save one, so was able to try quite a variety of guitars. The $400 Martins didn't really speak to me at all, save for one DX-1 (at least I think it was a DX-1), Taylors I didn't like until we got into the $1500 range, I didn't like any of the Gibsons. There were some Takamines that I liked, but only in the $900 range or higher.

But it was a great lesson. It looks like I'll be looking for a dreadnaught with rosewood sides and back and a spruce top. That seemed to give the best combination of bass response and clear top end, without being too bright or brittle to me. The smaller guitars just didn't project very well until I started getting into the much higher prices, and they didn't have the bass response, either. But that's what they're for.

If I had $700 right now, I would have come home with an older Guild dreadnaught, or a new Gretsch Rancher Jumbo. They both sounded very similar and had a very balanced tone that projected well. It would have been a tough call, but I think that the decision would have gone to the Guild just because it's used, and if I decided I didn't like it I could always sell it without losing much, if anything at all. The Gretsch is only worth probably $550 after I take it out the door.

The thing about the cheaper and middle Martins is that they, well, I don't know how to desribe it. I played notes on the high strings and they sounded nice, I played notes on the low strings and they sounded good, but the tone seemed to disappear when strumming chords. It was almost like hitting a tuned percussion instrument. There were much better acoustics in the $400 range. I played a $2k Martin that sounded phenomenal, though.

Too bad I didn't have cash to buy yesterday (soon, I hope).

[Oskar]

I would say go for a used acoustic, Guilds in particular can be found at decent prices. My feeling is that acoustic guitars definitely get better sounding once they are "broken" in. The wood ages, the necks settle and get used to string tension. In short, the guitar sets itself up. Cosmetic stuff is minor, scratches, dings, even the occasional small crack, if repaired correctly is no problem. I've owned dozens of electric guitars over the years, but the only acoustic I have every bought and still have is a '64 Gibson hummingbird I bought more than 30 years ago. Its finish is cracked, it has a repaired crack on the back, the original bridge was replaced, someone (before me) drilled a couple of holes in the top for control knobs (they've been repaired)it's funky and well used and yet everyone who's played it wants it. These are just my opinions, but I think you can do very, very well with a nice used acoustic. Hey, check out Parkway, I know we've talked about them before, great place. When I was there last year they had some very fine acoustics upstairs (this was before they expanded). Good luck in your search.

[eryque]

Oskar, I think I probably will buy used, but it will depend on what's available when I'm shopping. I think that I definitely don't want to buy an acoustic without playing it first.

Mikey and I did hit Parkway, and while they had a couple that were alright nothing really spoke to me. There was a used Takamine that wasn't bad, but the price was too high for the quality of sound, which was about on par with a couple of lower-end guitars. There was a higher-end Guild there that I felt the same way about. But none of the Gibsons I played all day spoke to me at all. I can tell with one chord if I'm going to like a guitar or not, and all the Gibsons made me think "for this price, are you kidding?"

[Oskar]

time and listening to your inner voice. I think acoustics are a bit different from electrics. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that I'm much more attached to my acoustic than my electrics even though I hardly play it. I can understand your feeling on the Gibsons, especially if they are the "newer" ones. I had the same feeling. Personally I wouldn't look twice at a newer Gibson these days. Just not that well built. But there are many others out there to choose from. As a musician you will definitely know when you find the right one. Good luck with the search.

Am planning a trip to Parkway over the next month or so. Will let you know when I'm going if you'd like to hook up for lunch, or just poke through Parkway's stock.

[eryque]

Yeah, definitely let me know when you're coming to town. I could be up for a little more browsing and eating, for sure.

Surprisingly, I think the best collections of acoustics we found were at the Guitar Center down in Albany and at the Only Guitar Shop on rt. 9. Parkway has a decent selection, but not a lot of variety, really, I'd put them #3 on the list. Fun place, though!

[Oskar]

I went in there on my last trip. Can't really remember much, but I think they had a couple of nice acoustics. Could be mistaken.

Will drop you an e-mail when I decide to go to Albany.

[eryque]

I always forget about that place. It's worth checking out because every once in a while they have a real gem, but most of it is oddball garbage. Occasionally they'll have cool old Fender head, found a old LP Black Beauty there once that had been re-necked (but it sounded awful and had frets ground flat with no crown). They usually have a few Danos too.

[kickz28]

I highly recommend checking out Seagull's. (www.seagullguitars.com) You can get a VERY sweet guitar for a great price. A friend of mine just purchased a Seagull S6 sunburst with LR Baggs electronics (I know you said you don't need them but if they are there their is no real reason not to have them right) and a hardshell case for $490 Canadian.

Seagulls are GREAT guitars and are made right here in Quebec. (They are actually affiliated with Godin).

[studio1087]

Acoustic Guitar Magazine did an article (it was in fact the cover story) last fall entitled "Best Bets under $1000". You should get a back copy and digest the long article - lots of info about construction, warrantee and tone from the editors. The article put the Martin DX-1 and the Taylor 110 and the Blueridge on top. Blueridge makes me nervous, it's an import that has become a craze in 18 months, I've never heard anyone say "boy, I just bought a fine 22 year old Ibanez acoustic".

I wish you would go try the DX-1 again. Ok, I'll come clean, 3 Martins, 1 Larrivee and 1 Epi in my acoustic woodpile. I have a DX-1 for Wisconsin Winter travel; it is bulletproof. Several family members just bought my nephew a Dx-1 for Christmas, he is an outstanding 17 year old student. As you can tell, I'm partial.

If you play another DX-1, ask the store to restring it with new strings, If it's a decent store they will do it. Chris Martin is a purist. He refuses to ship guitars with coated strings the way Taylor and Larrivee does. Go into any store; Taylor - shiny bright strings, Larrivee - shiny bright strings, Martin - green dead gross strings. It always makes my heart sink when pals say "Your Martins found amazing but every time I play one in a store they sound stuffed with socks" It's the darn strings.

Don't buy a used guitar, at $500, you will not get an aged, bloomed out $1500.00 guitar. At $500 or even $600 new you can find several Martin, Taylor or Seagull products that will carry a life warrantee to the first owner covering biggee's like neck resets, frets, tuners, bridge work. You have a chunk of cash, Martins and Taylors and other real guitars hold value so well that you will not jump ahead much rolling the dice on used.

Cut-aways are silly, If you want to shred play a Strat - Cut-aways remove at least 13% of the sound box from an acoustic. Your acoustic should sound like a wooden cannon, not a plastic Ovation.

At budget in all wood, the Seagull product is always a winner. Tacoma makes a high quality, honest guitar as well - avoid the goofy imports at your price range, get a guitar that will gain some value as the two of you age. For the best honest photos and pricing in general, snoop here if you have not;

www.elderly.com

Anything that you can play on acoustic you can play twice as well on electric. Acoustic guitars are chop-builders. Play that DX-1 for two weeks and pick the Tele back up, you'll have become Mr. Mighty Hands.
Good luck searching and have fun.

John

[dradams]

my personel opinion is that you get a guitar that is easy to play (action not to high), good tuning machines, and sounds really well! the reason i say this is because if you have to tune the guitar every time you pick it up you will get annoyed as will you if it does not sound good. you may have to spend a little more but it is well worth every dollar.

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by studio1087

Chris Martin is a purist. He refuses to ship guitars with coated strings the way Taylor and Larrivee does. Go into any store; Taylor - shiny bright strings, Larrivee - shiny bright strings, Martin - green dead gross strings.

Same purist who is now making formica-top acoustics? :)

Also, I disagree with your assertion he shouldn't buy used. I nearly ALWAYS buy used. A new $500 (street price) guitar will likely go for $300 or so used. I say save a buck or two.

-Eric

[eryque]

I didn't realize anyone was still watching this thread, or I would have posted the latest update.

I fouwhat I considered to be a good deal on aNOS Yamaha DW-15. It had been sitting in the shop for a while and sounded really good for a guitar in that range. I'm sure that the solid rosewood sides and back and solid spruce top helped a lot. It did have a heavy finish and was a heavy guitar, but sounded decent. To tell the truth, I liked that one better than ANY of the Taylors I tried, better than any Martin under $1800, and better than any other guitar at its price point. It wasn't super strong in the low end, but the mids were full and the high end sparkled without being brittle.

Then I took it to the Guitar Center to A/B it against an '82 Guild D-40 and a new Gretsch Rancher Jumbo cutaway. The Gretsch and the Guild sounded very similar, but ultimately the Gretsch is too muddy. Strong highs, but not much sparkle (could be because of the old strings), and nice lows, but not very 3-dimensional.

The Guild doesn't project as well in the highs, but the lows are really nice and it sparkles like 12-string when strumming. So, I took the Yamaha back and bought the D-40. Even though it's got a mahogany back and sides, it has the warm, sweet fullness of a guitar with rosewood. Like I said, the highs don't project incredibly, but there is a sweetness there that I really like. A buddy works there and was able to knock it down to $600 (marked at $700) and $0 for the case. He showed me the numbers, I don't think they made anything on me that night.

And for the record, the Martins have formica backs and sides, the tops are solid spruce. They play nice, but every Martin I tried under $1500 sounded very boxy, almost weird boxy. I played many, many, many guitars in my search, and the only ones I liked any better were a Martin HD-28 ($2400, I think), and a D-48, which wasn't cheap either.

[Teletwang]

Excellent choice.Good enough or Ritchie!

[Colo Springs E]

....there are a couple old Guilds down at the shop I frequent. Both are well worn. Both sound AWESOME. Interesting, too, because neither of them are all solid, both have lam back and sides (at least I think so; they both have that arched back, I think those are laminated, right??).

Anyway, very nice sounding guitars! Hope my Seagull one day sounds close!

-Eric

[eryque]

I think those old Guilds are an incredible value. At the same shop where I bought mine there's a '78 F212 (jumbo 12-string) marked at $750 that also sounds *incredible*. If I thought I'd play it and had an extra $750 I'd jump on that one too.

I played a whole bunch of new Guilds ranging in price from about $800 to $2000 and none of them spoke to me. Funny how that works.

[Caper]

Hope my Seagull one day sounds close!

Eric, I thought your Seagull was on the chopping block?

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by Caper

Eric, I thought your Seagull was on the chopping block?

.....it was, but no longer is.

On the other hand, when I hear how good a 20-yr old acoustic sounds, I don't know if I can wait that long, makes me want to go out and find one of those! :)

-Eric