What Kind of Vinyl Damages a Laquer Finish?

Brent Hutto · May 24th, 2008, 08:58 AM

I hear horror stories about finish damage from vinyl pads on straps, wall hangers, guitar stands and so forth. Somehow I've ended up with not one but two guitars that supposedly have lacquer finishes so I'm getting paranoid. How do you identify vinyl/rubber/foam/synthetic substances that are dangerous?

I have a "String Swing" brand wall hanger and it has a rubbery tubing material on the two arms of the "U" that cradles the headstock. I hung an old tee shirt on it before using it to hang my vintage (30's or 40's) no-name 000 guitar on which I'm quite positive the finish is lacquer. In fact, it is checked and craized and worn and almost certainly original. Good mojo but I don't want to add to it by having a vinyl pad orange-peel it on the headstock.

I also have a two-year-old "On Stage Stands" brand inexpensive floor stand with some sort of black foam-rubber kind of stuff where the back and butt end of the guitar contacts the stand. My newest guitar has, according to its maker, a "thin gloss lacquer" on the cedar top and "open pore matte finish" on the mahogany body. I don't know for sure whether that's a poly or urethane type coating or an old-fashioned lacquer but I'd rather not chance damage on a pristine new instrument.

So what does the bad vinyl look like? Or is there some distinctive smell or other test that will confirm the presence of a damaging type of material?

Tdot · May 24th, 2008, 10:06 AM

I believe String Swings are nitro safe.
I know all Hercules stands are nitro safe.
I know the GC/MF brands are NOT nitro safe.

I don't think the is a simple way you can tell just by inspecting the material.

philbool · May 24th, 2008, 01:00 PM

This brand XCG are nitro safe too..

http://www.eaglemusicshop.com/detail...itar-stand.htm

Brent Hutto · May 26th, 2008, 08:45 PM

Thanks for the pointers, guy. At some point I'll get an XCG or Hercules floor stand. In the mean while I heard back from my guitar's maker and he has used the String Swing hangers (recent models like mine) on guitars with his lacquer finish and found no problems. So I'm good to go with my wall hanger and my wife provided me with cloth "booties" to cover all the rubber bits on my current floor stand.

cband7 · May 29th, 2008, 03:59 AM

When I first read about the 'nitro vs. vinyl' thing a few years ago it made me sit up and take notice. To hear there are STILL people selling guitar accesories that can damage the finish is appalling. It appears there is no limit to greed.

Pelleparafin · August 12th, 2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tdot

I believe String Swings are nitro safe.
I know all Hercules stands are nitro safe.
I know the GC/MF brands are NOT nitro safe.

I don't think the is a simple way you can tell just by inspecting the material.

Hm....a bit late to the party, but how do you explain this? They list all the Hercules guitar stands with a warning NOT to use them with nitro guitars....

Tdot · August 12th, 2008, 08:41 AM

Hello Norway!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelleparafin

Hm....a bit late to the party, but how do you explain this? They list all the Hercules guitar stands with a warning NOT to use them with nitro guitars....

There's no explaining what retailers put in their ads. However it is interesting that since the time I made the previous post, Hercules has changed their website and now only say

Quote:

Specially Formulated Foam

and

Quote:

Guitar manufacturers employ differing types of finishes and finishing techniques. Please refer to your owner's manual for information regarding proper storage of your instrument.

Where they previously had a specific description of the foam as nitro safe. Maybe it's the same, maybe they changed factories?

Pelleparafin · August 14th, 2008, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tdot

Hello Norway!

There's no explaining what retailers put in their ads. However it is interesting that since the time I made the previous post, Hercules has changed their website and now only say "Specially Formulated Foam" and "Guitar manufacturers employ differing types of finishes and finishing techniques. Please refer to your owner's manual for information regarding proper storage of your instrument". Where they previously had a specific description of the foam as nitro safe. Maybe it's the same, maybe they changed factories?

Howdy!

Right you are...an old quote from their website: "...and lacquer-safe Specially Formulated Foam rubber".

Hmmm, I'm guessing many have tried it out by now and that some found out that the foam was not that safe after all? Just thinking there ought to be a good reason for a retailer to place such a specific warning on a product...Or, someone at Thomann Cyberstore is a moron

Oh well, I don't leave guitars on stands for long periods anyway!

johnnykf · August 14th, 2008, 04:26 AM

From my experience, research and having a ladyfriend who is a chemist, it is the plasticizers in the rubber or vinyl that cause the damage. That means the stuff they mix with the rubber that softens it.
A local shop has nitro finished Martins on stands that are made with foamy padding for long times and never has a problem. They did encounter issues with other types of stands.
I still won't leave mine on any stand for a long time.

RickG501 · August 14th, 2008, 10:30 AM

We need stand "condoms" made out of terrycloth.

eryque · August 14th, 2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cband7

When I first read about the 'nitro vs. vinyl' thing a few years ago it made me sit up and take notice. To hear there are STILL people selling guitar accesories that can damage the finish is appalling. It appears there is no limit to greed.

99.9% of all guitars made are finished in poly, which does not react with much of anything. Can't blame companies for selling stuff that's compatible with all but the tiniest minorities of guitars out there.

Brent Hutto · August 14th, 2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickG501

We need stand "condoms" made out of terrycloth.

My guitar's maker says he has used the exact brand and type of stands that I own with no problems. Same with the String Swing, at least the current production ones. That's good to know.

But I have cloth "condoms" over both the string swing and all three points of contact on the floor stand. My "condoms" were originally "socks" but have been repurposed for practicing Safe Standage with my nitro-finished guitar.

aznrambo481 · August 14th, 2008, 11:20 AM

better safe than sorry... a dozen socks will put you back way less than a ruined finish.

Papa Joe · August 14th, 2008, 12:09 PM

I have an 8 string Dobro that was contaminated by a wall hanger.

Now I just don't sweat it,nothig but cloth or leather EVER touches any of my insturments..Ain't got the time or know-how to test the differnt materials that are out there.. ..PJ...

Tele Fan · August 14th, 2008, 12:12 PM

I just keep in them in the cases when I'm not playing. I don't have enough room in the apartment to display the family.

Brent Hutto · August 14th, 2008, 12:34 PM

I usually put my acoustic guitar in the case overnight, pull it out the first time I play in the morning and leave it on the wall hanger until the last time I set it down before bed time. I rarely use the floor stand for the acoustic guitar, it would be easy to knock over and there's an air-conditioning vent across the room that puts a draft on it. So I use the floor stand for the Telecaster which shrugs off the cool draft and would survive a trip to the floor almost certainly.

RickG501 · August 15th, 2008, 10:25 AM

The socks are a good idea. Wonder if a guy could just by a package of toddler tube socks to use....? Don't want no SNDs. (Screwed-up, Nitro Damage).

soundhound6 · August 15th, 2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Joe

I have an 8 string Dobro that was contaminated by a wall hanger.

Now I just don't sweat it,nothig but cloth or leather EVER touches any of my insturments..Ain't got the time or know-how to test the differnt materials that are out there.. ..PJ...

I put a leather sleeve over all the rubber on my stands,since nobody could give me a for sure answer when asked about chemical thing.( plain tanned,no colors for safety.)

The rubber under the leather makes for good padding tho.

Jan

May 24th, 2008, 08:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
Brent Hutto Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 657 6 Photos	What Kind of Vinyl Damages a Laquer Finish? I hear horror stories about finish damage from vinyl pads on straps, wall hangers, guitar stands and so forth. Somehow I've ended up with not one but two guitars that supposedly have lacquer finishes so I'm getting paranoid. How do you identify vinyl/rubber/foam/synthetic substances that are dangerous? I have a "String Swing" brand wall hanger and it has a rubbery tubing material on the two arms of the "U" that cradles the headstock. I hung an old tee shirt on it before using it to hang my vintage (30's or 40's) no-name 000 guitar on which I'm quite positive the finish is lacquer. In fact, it is checked and craized and worn and almost certainly original. Good mojo but I don't want to add to it by having a vinyl pad orange-peel it on the headstock. I also have a two-year-old "On Stage Stands" brand inexpensive floor stand with some sort of black foam-rubber kind of stuff where the back and butt end of the guitar contacts the stand. My newest guitar has, according to its maker, a "thin gloss lacquer" on the cedar top and "open pore matte finish" on the mahogany body. I don't know for sure whether that's a poly or urethane type coating or an old-fashioned lacquer but I'd rather not chance damage on a pristine new instrument. So what does the bad vinyl look like? Or is there some distinctive smell or other test that will confirm the presence of a damaging type of material? __________________ ON HIATUS

May 24th, 2008, 10:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tdot Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Back of the Wasatch, UT Posts: 3,535 61 Photos	I believe String Swings are nitro safe. I know all Hercules stands are nitro safe. I know the GC/MF brands are NOT nitro safe. I don't think the is a simple way you can tell just by inspecting the material. __________________ And now for some feedback: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

May 26th, 2008, 08:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Brent Hutto Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 657 6 Photos	Thanks for the pointers, guy. At some point I'll get an XCG or Hercules floor stand. In the mean while I heard back from my guitar's maker and he has used the String Swing hangers (recent models like mine) on guitars with his lacquer finish and found no problems. So I'm good to go with my wall hanger and my wife provided me with cloth "booties" to cover all the rubber bits on my current floor stand. __________________ ON HIATUS

May 29th, 2008, 03:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
cband7 Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kwajalein, Marshall Islands Age: 54 Posts: 180	When I first read about the 'nitro vs. vinyl' thing a few years ago it made me sit up and take notice. To hear there are STILL people selling guitar accesories that can damage the finish is appalling. It appears there is no limit to greed. __________________ "If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith." --Albert Einstein

August 14th, 2008, 10:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
RickG501 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Age: 54 Posts: 871	We need stand "condoms" made out of terrycloth. __________________ I know my words sound strange to you but if you wait til my song is sung and my story's told you might come to understand...

May 24th, 2008, 01:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
philbool TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England, UK Age: 25 Posts: 74 6 Photos	This brand XCG are nitro safe too.. http://www.eaglemusicshop.com/detail...itar-stand.htm

August 14th, 2008, 04:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
johnnykf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 438	From my experience, research and having a ladyfriend who is a chemist, it is the plasticizers in the rubber or vinyl that cause the damage. That means the stuff they mix with the rubber that softens it. A local shop has nitro finished Martins on stands that are made with foamy padding for long times and never has a problem. They did encounter issues with other types of stands. I still won't leave mine on any stand for a long time.

August 14th, 2008, 11:20 AM	#13 (permalink)
aznrambo481 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla, California Age: 17 Posts: 2,843 6 Photos	better safe than sorry... a dozen socks will put you back way less than a ruined finish. __________________ "Never age. Never die. Live forever in that one last white-hot moment, when the crowd screamed. When every note was a heartbeat. Burn across the sky."-Terry Pratchett, Soul Music.

August 14th, 2008, 12:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
Papa Joe Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pontiac Mi. Age: 79 Posts: 179	I have an 8 string Dobro that was contaminated by a wall hanger. Now I just don't sweat it,nothig but cloth or leather EVER touches any of my insturments..Ain't got the time or know-how to test the differnt materials that are out there.. ..PJ...

August 14th, 2008, 12:12 PM	#15 (permalink)
Tele Fan Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Louisville, Ky Age: 29 Posts: 1,459	I just keep in them in the cases when I'm not playing. I don't have enough room in the apartment to display the family. __________________ Life is better when you just make it up as you go along.

August 14th, 2008, 12:34 PM	#16 (permalink)
Brent Hutto Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 657 6 Photos	I usually put my acoustic guitar in the case overnight, pull it out the first time I play in the morning and leave it on the wall hanger until the last time I set it down before bed time. I rarely use the floor stand for the acoustic guitar, it would be easy to knock over and there's an air-conditioning vent across the room that puts a draft on it. So I use the floor stand for the Telecaster which shrugs off the cool draft and would survive a trip to the floor almost certainly. __________________ ON HIATUS

August 15th, 2008, 10:25 AM	#17 (permalink)
RickG501 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Age: 54 Posts: 871	The socks are a good idea. Wonder if a guy could just by a package of toddler tube socks to use....? Don't want no SNDs. (Screwed-up, Nitro Damage). __________________ I know my words sound strange to you but if you wait til my song is sung and my story's told you might come to understand...