Why aren't acoustics being "reliced"?

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by getbent

hmmm, what about the distinction between hollow body electrics and solid bodies? I haven't seen any factory made hollow body relics... maybe it is more of a solid body vs. acoustic chamber thing...

I have seen one, Fender Custom Shop is currently making a relic'd "Brian Setzer Tribute" Gretsch 6120. Complete with all of the wear, missing paint, cracks, checking, etc. of Brian's original '59. Kinda like the Stevie and Rory tribute guitars.

I may have been drunk, and mistaken, (it happens somewhat frequently ) but I seem to remember some gibson Tom Murphy aged semi-hollows as well.

You're right though, you don't see 'em often...


Jake

[dijos]

the obvious answer is that relicing does not affect a solid body's tone or playability, while it will greatly affect an acoustic's.

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by dijos

the obvious answer is that relicing does not affect a solid body's tone or playability, while it will greatly affect an acoustic's.

I guess it wasn't that obvious, no one else mentioned it.

[getbent]

who is this Obvious guy and how come he always knows stuff... where is my hammer, my forehead needs an adjustment!

jakedog, that is great knowledge!

[allen st. john]

the obvious answer is that relicing does not affect a solid body's tone or playability, while it will greatly affect an acoustic's.

dijos,

I don't think that's true at all.

Relicing, if done properly, is a much less invasive process than putting a glossy finish on a guitar, which requires a good bit of aggressive sanding and buffing.

More to the point, although it's rarely talked about, the very best luthiers do it selectively when repairing vintage guitars that are worth huge money, so it has no negative impact on tone or playability.

FWIW, I think you'll see a relic'd acoustic from Martin or Gibson sooner rather than later.

best
Allen

[CatfishStudios]

Gibson's Clapton 335 model is reliced.even get a reliced case with "CREAM" spray stenciled on it...so they do hollow bodies as well..anyone interested in some rusty strings that will make your closet relic look like its been sitting in there for 20 years? only 50 bucks per set..PM me... Im also thinking of doing some pots that are preworn and scratchy as hell..on the verge of failure for only double the cost of a new potentiometer.

[Dennis68]

I like most of my stuff in relic form, but mostly I want to be the one doing it. I will make exceptons for a guitar here and there if it feels great, plays great and most of all sounds great.

[hamish5178]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I know that guy, his shop is very close to me!

I'm hoping to take my Blind Faith Tele build to him for the wiring and setup.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by hamish5178

I know that guy, his shop is very close to me!

I'm hoping to take my Blind Faith Tele build to him for the wiring and setup.

Ask him if he has ever cracked a sound board doing that.

[allen st. john]

Ask him if he has ever cracked a sound board doing that.

I don't know about the guy in the video, but I've seen one of the best luthiers in the world do it on a $50K vintage Martin.

He does all sorts of things around these guitars--drilling, chiseling, heating, clamping--that are a giant top crack waiting to happen for a regular clumsy guy like me. I don't get the impression that checking a finish is particularly worrisome to him.

[beach bob]

Well I for one hope that relicing acoustics doesn't become a trend. It just seems too risky from a structural standpoint. In reality, relicing a solidbody is (for the most part) abusing the finish, and aging / corroding the metal bits. On an acoustic, I think isolating the aging to strictly the finish, and not the wood below, is going to be difficult, and possibly risky if one is using some of the more severe methods used on electric solidbodies. That video is sorta scary...

Someone surely has said this here before, but I think the relic trend for electrics came about something like this: Say you're a seasoned player, perhaps nationally known. You've been playing quality old guitars for years. Over the years you find the value of your trusty / much loved old axes is skyrocketing, such that it becomes quite a risk to gig them. Not everyone has a contract rider calling for an armed guard to guard the axes once they're staged. So you go find some suitable touring guitars... and you maybe don't want to have em looking brand new, cuz you been at this a good long time, and you're not exactly new either . So the custom builder dude is pretty smart, and offers to relic the things for you. Hey, them folks past the first three rows won't know the difference! I think some amount of image / ego comes into play here...Can you imagine Keef up there with a spanking new tele? Me neither...

Multiply the above by a several dozen top players, known for playing iconic axes, and you have a freakin' trend. So here's all us mere mortal players, thinking, yaknow, I can't do the $35k for that fifties tele, but I could have a nice one relic'd and it'd be just like so-an-so's been on tour with... practical from a $$ standpoint, and some cool factor too, even if the relic part is fake cool. Perhaps we might not admit to thinking this overtly, but what influences your choices as to what you desire in an instrument can be a pretty convoluted mix of emotion, asthetics, and engineering.

I have a picture calendar, the kind you hang on the wall and flip the page each month... it's for the year 2000, and has all sorts of iconic guitars, generally three variants on a theme. Three fiftes strats, three late 50s Gretsches, two D'aquisto jazz boxes, firebirds, prewar martins, and teles of course , etc. etc. ALL of these pics show instruments in dead mint or (at worst) near mint condition. Nice pics of nice guitars, so I kept the calendar instead of tossing it. So why aren't there any beat-up looking pieces? Maybe that's just the asthetic of the people that put the calendar together... It had to have taken some time to source the pieces and get the pics done. So figure this occured ten years ago... and it got me thinking the other day ...

Returning to 2008: maybe most of really primo / mint items are out of circulation, in a vault at a bank of some investment broker, gaining value better than the rest of their stock portfolio? And maybe what one sees at the vintage guitar shows nowadays are not so mint, as a whole. And maybe this is what some people want to play, a semi-beat guitar, since this is what is out there now circulating in the vintage market? It's just a thought I had. Surely there are dead mint pieces out there. I think these are the exception, and less commonly seen than 10 or 15 years ago. But that's just speculation on my part. Though I do think it influences this trend to relic.

I've seen relics at the shows, and I can admit they look cool; they do sorta transport ya back to the 60s, or 50s, or whenever. I don't know if I'd buy one though, and find it really hard to justify paying a premium for it, knowing it's not honest playing wear. My 2c. OK 5c, this was a long post :)

[skydawg]

Originally Posted by beach bob

Well I for one hope that relicing acoustics doesn't become a trend. It just seems too risky from a structural standpoint. In reality, relicing a solidbody is (for the most part) abusing the finish, and aging / corroding the metal bits. On an acoustic, I think isolating the aging to strictly the finish, and not the wood below, is going to be difficult, and possibly risky if one is using some of the more severe methods used on electric solidbodies. That video is sorta scary...

Someone surely has said this here before, but I think the relic trend for electrics came about something like this: Say you're a seasoned player, perhaps nationally known. You've been playing quality old guitars for years. Over the years you find the value of your trusty / much loved old axes is skyrocketing, such that it becomes quite a risk to gig them. Not everyone has a contract rider calling for an armed guard to guard the axes once they're staged. So you go find some suitable touring guitars... and you maybe don't want to have em looking brand new, cuz you been at this a good long time, and you're not exactly new either . So the custom builder dude is pretty smart, and offers to relic the things for you. Hey, them folks past the first three rows won't know the difference! I think some amount of image / ego comes into play here...Can you imagine Keef up there with a spanking new tele? Me neither...

Multiply the above by a several dozen top players, known for playing iconic axes, and you have a freakin' trend. So here's all us mere mortal players, thinking, yaknow, I can't do the $35k for that fifties tele, but I could have a nice one relic'd and it'd be just like so-an-so's been on tour with... practical from a $$ standpoint, and some cool factor too, even if the relic part is fake cool. Perhaps we might not admit to thinking this overtly, but what influences your choices as to what you desire in an instrument can be a pretty convoluted mix of emotion, asthetics, and engineering.

I have a picture calendar, the kind you hang on the wall and flip the page each month... it's for the year 2000, and has all sorts of iconic guitars, generally three variants on a theme. Three fiftes strats, three late 50s Gretsches, two D'aquisto jazz boxes, firebirds, prewar martins, and teles of course , etc. etc. ALL of these pics show instruments in dead mint or (at worst) near mint condition. Nice pics of nice guitars, so I kept the calendar instead of tossing it. So why aren't there any beat-up looking pieces? Maybe that's just the asthetic of the people that put the calendar together... It had to have taken some time to source the pieces and get the pics done. So figure this occured ten years ago... and it got me thinking the other day ...

Returning to 2008: maybe most of really primo / mint items are out of circulation, in a vault at a bank of some investment broker, gaining value better than the rest of their stock portfolio? And maybe what one sees at the vintage guitar shows nowadays are not so mint, as a whole. And maybe this is what some people want to play, a semi-beat guitar, since this is what is out there now circulating in the vintage market? It's just a thought I had. Surely there are dead mint pieces out there. I think these are the exception, and less commonly seen than 10 or 15 years ago. But that's just speculation on my part. Though I do think it influences this trend to relic.

I've seen relics at the shows, and I can admit they look cool; they do sorta transport ya back to the 60s, or 50s, or whenever. I don't know if I'd buy one though, and find it really hard to justify paying a premium for it, knowing it's not honest playing wear. My 2c. OK 5c, this was a long post :)

OK, now back to the original question. The fretboard on an acoustic could be reliced w/o structural concerns. As well as the back of the neck and the headstock. Limiting the relicing of the body to the finish is certainly conceivable.

[doublee]

I was going to reply with my feelings about relic'ing in general...but thought better of it!

[stephent2]

Originally Posted by doublee

I was going to reply with my feelings about relic'ing in general...but thought better of it!

Good choice. This thread really isn't about feelings, the OP asked a very specific acoustic guitar question.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by allen st. john

I don't know about the guy in the video, but I've seen one of the best luthiers in the world do it on a $50K vintage Martin.

He does all sorts of things around these guitars--drilling, chiseling, heating, clamping--that are a giant top crack waiting to happen for a regular clumsy guy like me. I don't get the impression that checking a finish is particularly worrisome to him.

Why would you artificially relic a guitar thats already vintage? Now I am confused. Or was it a restore or fix job?

[studio1087]

You mean like this one......


1944 000-18

I'm just guessing that most acoustic players wouldn't fall for the nonsense. You'll never find a group of cork-sniffers as crazed about wood as older acoustic players. I say this with respect as I'm one of them.

Back away with the flame throwers and liquid nitrogen. Please back away. If one of my Martins ever needs a neck reset, I'll send it to the best luthier in the state and ask all of you to pray while I take sedatives.

Back away with the liquid nitrogen....you're scaring me.

John

[beach bob]

Originally Posted by skydawg

OK, now back to the original question. The fretboard on an acoustic could be reliced w/o structural concerns. As well as the back of the neck and the headstock.

Mmmm, I guess they could. At any rate, the original question was, Why aren't acoustic guitars being reliced? And the answer is, evidently some are, going by that video.

Originally Posted by skydawg

Limiting the relicing of the body to the finish is certainly conceivable.

Conceivable, yes. Doable? I don't know. Look at that vid, looks to me that the guy is thermal cycling the top, evidently to get the finish to craze. Can he assure the guitar's owner that he hasn't compromised the bond of the glued top braces with that treatment? Tops are pretty thin, well under 0.25" thick. It wouldn't take much for the heat / cold to transfer to the glue joints...

I'm with John, and am also an avowed glue sniffin'/ I mean CORK sniffin' wood obsessed cue stick gee tar snob

I'm gonna relic my Collings the old-fashioned way, by the campfire with a bunch of other pickers who possibly ain't quite one hundred percent sober

[SatelliteOrders]

Originally Posted by skydawg

OK, now back to the original question. The fretboard on an acoustic could be reliced w/o structural concerns. As well as the back of the neck and the headstock. Limiting the relicing of the body to the finish is certainly conceivable.

My old acoustic has deep ruts in the fingerboard. If you had the strings off, you couldn't tell. What's the use of cosmetic relicing where you can't see it. You relic a maple-neck Fender so your neck can look like the neck of Brownie on the back cover of <i>Layla</i>. The effect on a rosewood neck is much less visual.

[63dot]

Originally Posted by skydawg

Title says it all. I just got to wondering.

honestly, the first thing that came to mind was willie nelson's acoustic

that guitar has mojo

[beach bob]

I think you mean Blackie?

Heck, go all out on that fretboard, and file down the crown on the first few frets under the strings, so that they fret out at frets 5 and 6. Now THAT'S reliced baby!!!!

(kidding of course)

I'm glad you mentioned Clapton's Blackie. Ya know why it sits at the Hard Rock now (or maybe not, anymore?? Perhaps it was sold at that nutty auction where Eric's axes went for sky high $$$)? BECAUSE ERIC WORE THE DANG THING OUT. It was falling apart, so he moved on to another guitar and retired Blackie. That's relicing taken to its logical conclusion I think.

[allen st. john]

Why would you artificially relic a guitar thats already vintage? Now I am confused. Or was it a restore or fix job?

I'm talking about a vintage Martin that needed extensive repair and/or restoration work, and the luthier wanted to make the repair blend in with the rest of the guitar. At the lowest level, it might be deglossing or checking a small area of overspray or lacquer touchup.

This "relicing" can be as extensive as retopping a guitar--in which case the wood itself might be "suntanned" so that it has that golden color of an old Martin. Sometimes a new neck needs to be made, and there might be an attempt to subtly replicate some playing wear. One particular luthier is so good that he replaced the a damaged side on a 1930 Martin OM-28 (a $70 K guitar in mint condition) and some very prominent experts couldn't figure out which side was real and which was the replacement.

Most acoustics have rosewood or ebony fretboards so there's really no point in relicing them.

FWIW, I would think that the real expert relicers, guys like Jonathan Wilson, treat even solid body guitars rather gently. I would bet they use sandpaper and not an electric sander, and the "abuse" (say, dropping or denting the body) is only a very small part of their craft.

It's funny, in the acoustic world, many of the greatest crimes have been committed in the service of covering up relicing. The Martin factory would overspray guitar routinely, and put giant, hideous ugly pickguards to cover play wear, which is a huge hit on value now. One of those pickguards is on an insanely valuable pre-war D-45 and a friend of mine joked "Wanna see a $30,000 pickguard?"

best
Allen