Telecaster Guitar Forum - View Single Post - Playing with those "Pesky Steel Guitars".

Ericwest53 · July 30th, 2005, 01:11 PM

Hi.

I'm posting this after perusing the "Buzz Feiten" thread on this forum, and thought it might be interesting as to why "steel guitars" are considered "pesky".

Fiddles are in my long experience "pesky" because a lot of the players play closed positions, playing to what they "think" they hear, be it a flat vocalist or maybe a sharp guitar, rythym or otherwise in the hands of "the exuberant". Other than that, they almost always "tune" to the strobe. The ones that play to their open strings don't wander as much...

Steels are another matter. "Nightmare"? Well.....

:)

Heck of an intro, but I've played 6 string for 40 some years, and fromthe beginning have always tuned what is referred to as heretically "straight up" Maybe adjusting the G string for poorly set up nuts, maybe even the B string..

Playing Pedal Steel steadily for money for the last 25, most of it was done in the same manner. More than a couple thousand paid gigs. (Some better than others of course.) No "adjustments", though it's a durn site harder on some cases, and there are no "bridge adjusters".

I have had no problems keeping it "straight" and have played with several dozen local players, some of whom I'm sure visit this board.

Here's where the story changes.

About three years ago, I started learning that a LOT of PSG players tune their "thirds" "sixths" and other intervals up to "15 cents flat". They have complex methods for their positional adjustments, and reasons why "It doesn't matter" on single note, and out of context chord fragments.

The first time I heard this I spit my ice tea all over my fretboard, and dismissed it out of hand.

Then I heard more and more how "top name" players were doing this.

In the last three years of my participation on the

Regardless that the "Top Guy" Buddy Emmons tunes his "straight up", it goes on from directly beneath him, that the thirds, sixths, and I don't know what all must vary 2-15 CENTS or it 's considered "out of tune".

Invariably, it is let that "guitars" tune or "tweak" this way too, which is where as a guitar player, I finally have to put my foot down.

They mention the "BF" tuning system" which I note ROTB that it doesn't "sweeten thirds" not adjust linear intervals. Certainly not 15 cents...

OK.

Some Links.

Last First.

Examples/Paul Franklin Comments

On Guitar Tuning as per the Anerican Luthiers Society Standard

Interesting Sidebar to same

Tempered Tuning Armageddon w/ Buddy Emmons' Comments

Further into The Abyss

Being a guitar player for such a long time, and playing steel currently with one of the better C/W guitar players in Ptld, after playing with a string of them, Kevin Neal, Buster Newberry, Kurt Radtke, and other probably little known but VERY good local pickers, I've found no "pesky intonation problems" tuning the way they and I tune. "Straight up".

It's been put forth that the Pedal Steel, isn't "taken seriously" for a couple of reasons, and that the "tuning systems" might have something to do with it.

Reading at least 50,000 words of the linked posts and topics with participation from the "top guys" in the field might show a couple things.

One, that Buddy Emmons' clear comments are his sole participation and maybe why.

Two, that it's not the Instrument that's necessarily "pesky"....

Anyhow, in case the subject of "Pesky Steel Guitars" comes up, as our instrument moves into and possibly "invades" other genres. It might be well to know some of the "baggage" that will be coming with them.

Not with me though..

I tune my 20 string, 8 pedal, 6 knee lever newly refitted ShoBud, with GHS SS strings on it "Straight Up", just like my tele, strat, and my 1968 Federico Garcia.

Thanks for the read, and, letting me 'splain why the "pesky" tag is not far from wrong, and possibly why..

Eric (Soon-to-be-never-working-in-Nashville)West.

Any comments can be forwarded to the PSG Forum, but it might be noted how I've done lately....

:)

EJL

July 30th, 2005, 01:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ericwest53 TDPRI Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 96	Playing with those "Pesky Steel Guitars". Hi. I'm posting this after perusing the "Buzz Feiten" thread on this forum, and thought it might be interesting as to why "steel guitars" are considered "pesky". Fiddles are in my long experience "pesky" because a lot of the players play closed positions, playing to what they "think" they hear, be it a flat vocalist or maybe a sharp guitar, rythym or otherwise in the hands of "the exuberant". Other than that, they almost always "tune" to the strobe. The ones that play to their open strings don't wander as much... Steels are another matter. "Nightmare"? Well..... :) Heck of an intro, but I've played 6 string for 40 some years, and fromthe beginning have always tuned what is referred to as heretically "straight up" Maybe adjusting the G string for poorly set up nuts, maybe even the B string.. Playing Pedal Steel steadily for money for the last 25, most of it was done in the same manner. More than a couple thousand paid gigs. (Some better than others of course.) No "adjustments", though it's a durn site harder on some cases, and there are no "bridge adjusters". I have had no problems keeping it "straight" and have played with several dozen local players, some of whom I'm sure visit this board. Here's where the story changes. About three years ago, I started learning that a LOT of PSG players tune their "thirds" "sixths" and other intervals up to "15 cents flat". They have complex methods for their positional adjustments, and reasons why "It doesn't matter" on single note, and out of context chord fragments. The first time I heard this I spit my ice tea all over my fretboard, and dismissed it out of hand. Then I heard more and more how "top name" players were doing this. In the last three years of my participation on the Regardless that the "Top Guy" Buddy Emmons tunes his "straight up", it goes on from directly beneath him, that the thirds, sixths, and I don't know what all must vary 2-15 CENTS or it 's considered "out of tune". Invariably, it is let that "guitars" tune or "tweak" this way too, which is where as a guitar player, I finally have to put my foot down. They mention the "BF" tuning system" which I note ROTB that it doesn't "sweeten thirds" not adjust linear intervals. Certainly not 15 cents... OK. Some Links. Last First. Examples/Paul Franklin Comments On Guitar Tuning as per the Anerican Luthiers Society Standard Interesting Sidebar to same Tempered Tuning Armageddon w/ Buddy Emmons' Comments Further into The Abyss Being a guitar player for such a long time, and playing steel currently with one of the better C/W guitar players in Ptld, after playing with a string of them, Kevin Neal, Buster Newberry, Kurt Radtke, and other probably little known but VERY good local pickers, I've found no "pesky intonation problems" tuning the way they and I tune. "Straight up". It's been put forth that the Pedal Steel, isn't "taken seriously" for a couple of reasons, and that the "tuning systems" might have something to do with it. Reading at least 50,000 words of the linked posts and topics with participation from the "top guys" in the field might show a couple things. One, that Buddy Emmons' clear comments are his sole participation and maybe why. Two, that it's not the Instrument that's necessarily "pesky".... Anyhow, in case the subject of "Pesky Steel Guitars" comes up, as our instrument moves into and possibly "invades" other genres. It might be well to know some of the "baggage" that will be coming with them. Not with me though.. I tune my 20 string, 8 pedal, 6 knee lever newly refitted ShoBud, with GHS SS strings on it "Straight Up", just like my tele, strat, and my 1968 Federico Garcia. Thanks for the read, and, letting me 'splain why the "pesky" tag is not far from wrong, and possibly why.. Eric (Soon-to-be-never-working-in-Nashville)West. Any comments can be forwarded to the PSG Forum, but it might be noted how I've done lately.... :) EJL