[micpoc]

Originally Posted by getbent

Not being too harsh, but you are completely missing/blind to what the appeal of the show is.

No argument there.

First, I'll dispense with the mockery portion of it. . . . . Folks who just dig this part of the show I think are probably pretty limited and probably like practical jokes that are more mean than funny and probably delight in scaring people. It takes all kinds...

Perhaps... but I still think the show and its producers have explicitly marketed and capitalized on mockery - even if it is dispensed with after the first few episodes of a season. I do wonder about what the more wide-ranging effects of these derisive attitudes will be; let's hope they're negligible.

Now... the part I think you don't get. Rags to riches stories are very interesting to a wide variety of ages and economic backgrounds. Getting a chance to completely be Cinderella is one that many quietly dream of....and while it may not be happening to us directly there is enough variety among the contestants that most people can identify with one or more contestants. The point of this show is NOT to create pop stars... it is great when they go on to success but it is what happens DURING the competition that matters. Think of the show as a story and each week the episodes unfold more stories and no one knows exactly what will happen.

Do you think the contestants feel that way? Of course, rags to riches stories have mass appeal, but I seriously doubt that the participants enter the contest so they can act as a mirror for the viewers to project their fantasies on to. I would venture that most of them enter... to BECOME POP STARS. And the particular brand of pop that the show hangs up as the gold standard is what I, and many others I know who don't care for the show, find so particularly offensive. And, if what you're saying is true, then it also stands that the music is secondary, even tangential, to the story being told. You make an interesting point, though; some of the contemporary reality shows (AI, Survivor, and The Real World) are new ways of telling stories. I'm guessing that you're overstating the implicit storyline aspect of AI... I could be wrong, though, as I don't watch the show.

Now, about the example of Simon 'being mean' and ragging on a girl for her weight.... All good stories have to have villains, challenges have to threaten the protagonists, and people need to have a sense of how difficult show business is and that by chasing your dream you have to face the reality of the mean world. Does anyone think that folks that are obese get the same opportunities as those who are model thin? (rhetorical question)

My problem with Simon's remark wasn't so much his deriding the girl for her weight (tacky as that was), but his later retort about Aretha Franklin. A world where where an Aretha couldn't be a star - the world of American Idol - isn't a world I want to be in, and I think it's a bad world to be selling as entertainment to the masses. The answer to your rhetorical question is obvious.

AI sells hope to all of us. We get to watch ambitious young people who want to show what they can do and possibly change their lives by doing what they love and as we've all learned winning the show doesn't equal success but it doesn't doom to failure either! What matters is the week in, week out performance.

If that's what they're trying to sell me, thanks but no thanks, I think I'll check Craigslist or eBay first: the cost that AI charges is too steep. ALL so-called talent shows run on dreams, hope, and stardust, but AI tosses in jeers, bile and a vitriolic sensibility that is as insufferable as it is unnecessary.

When I see the complaints about the contracts, the material, singing a song originally recorded in the 30's (but re recorded MANY TIMES in the 60's) it reminds me of girls who complain about how ugly bridesmaids dresses are. . . . . . . When I find myself seeing everything about something that is immensely popular as stupid... I recognize my failure to see how others see...

I don't know anything about this contracts situation; I love old songs; I enjoyed the AI episode that featured Brian May and Roger Taylor from Queen... yet at the same time, I find a remarkable lack of energy and life in most of the performances that I've heard from the show, and I'm willing to bet that it's not the fault of the talent themselves. Being able to recognize one's inability to see the other person's POV is to be admired, but there's also something to be said for having strong, well-considered opinions.

You may not like AI... you may feel competitive with it because you are chasing your dream your own way... but to not get that they are selling hope not singers and the cinderella dream and not commerce is to just completely miss it...

I'm not pursuing a professional musical career and am in no sort of competition with AI, thanks. There are many ways to tell rags to riches stories; I simply find the way AI does so to be distasteful and demeaning, and possibly encouraging of such attitudes in its viewership.

As for Randy Jackson being a has been. Exactly. He HAS BEEN. He knows what its like...

I NEVER said Randy Jackson was a "has been." Period.

so, no, you aren't too harsh at all... you just can't see it...

Again, agreed: I don't get it. I've never been a fan of Michael Jackson either, but I certainly appreciate the fact that, at least at one time, he was massively popular and meant a lot to a certain generation... as did, say, Lawrence Welk. But there are other quite ugly things about AI that I and others can quite plainly see; if that's "not getting it," so be it.

I remember taking a non linear math class once and one of the 'smartest guys' used to get furious at some of the problems because they just didn't go like he wanted them to... and the prof used to say 'folks who are stuck in thinking one way will not prosper here.'

What you're describing is petulant behavior; I hope my criticism of AI is not mistaken for such. I'm neither furious nor stuck in one way of thinking.

One last tiny point about the 'i'm not knocking parents who let their kids watch a show where a host tells someone that their weight will limit their career'. . . . . The truth is (repeated research) that this stuff is a reality.

You're interpolating a couple of different points I made, but fair enough. Reality can be what we wish to make it.

Thanks for replying, getbent; we thoroughly (and I mean THOROUGHLY) disagree about AI, but I appreciate your comments.