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Rick J · January 16th, 2008, 03:41 PM

Hi Telemarkman - I've measured mine! I've also had a very experienced local tech look over the whole thing earlier today, - someone who has sold and worked on literally hundreds of RI's both USA and MIJ, and has also re-wired many of them to modern wiring so knows the guitar inside and out including the electronics.

Firstly, the measurement between the dots is a hair over 1 3/4", - which is definitely wider than most USA Ri's. This aspect might indeed suggest a MIJ.

However, in every other aspect possible to examine, he was convinced that this was a USA 52ri. I don't have time to write a long post now, (I'm an accountant in the thick of tax season in th UK!!) but the principal points of his diagnosis were:

1) Date stamping "NOV 05 2006" on the butt of the neck is USA style.

2) No "Crafted in Japan" on back of neck. He said he had seen several guitars over the years where this had been sanded off or somehow removed, and in every single case there was some "ghost" image left or evidence of removal, or the neck had very obviously been stripped and refinished. NO evidence here of any refinish or any sort of disturbance or ghosting in the relevant area of the neck.

3) Electronics under the control plate: Soldering is clearly factory quality and unchanged, "old wiring" circuit still in place, with correct factory components, not just in values, but in terms of actual brands. CTS pots with correct markings. Switch is open type, - every MIJ he had seen came with a closed in type switch. He couldn't guarantee they had never been made, (maybe somebody else can certify this point) but in twenty years he had never seen a MIJ (or CIJ) re-issue with old style wiring, or ever been asked to rewire one from old to new.

4) Frets on the neck were clearly not standard, and looked a lot like the Dunlops they are supposed to be, not just because of measurement but because of the brighter silver colour and lack of any noticeable wear on a used guitar, (apparently they have a lower nickel content and wear better than standard frets).

5) Neck is (medium) chunky U shape, not as big as a Nocaster, but in his opinion bigger than any MIJ he had ever seen other than that on a MIJ Donahue. - But that neck has a noticeable "v" in the first five or six inches, and there was no sign of that on this neck.

6) Colour - Yellow golden colour very typical of USA production, particularly recent, - he couldn't recall seeing a MIJ of this colour, - all the 52 RIs of Japaneses origin he had seen are "browner" (clearer lacquer) or "whiter" (more blonde). This, incidentally, accords with my own experience.

7) Bridge plate, saddles, stampings are correct for recent 52RI. We didn't remove the bridge, but he had a good look and thought that it looked very much like it had never been removed, not conclusive by any means, but he reckoned its quite difficult to remove a bridge and replace it with another without any leaving any kind of evidence at all, - - but yes, it could just have been replaced.

8) Little peek of the bridge pick up rout visible to the right of the bridge, - he said almost unversal on USA models, - never seen it on an a MIJ or CIJ, - the Japanese would have likely "corrected" such an error.

9) As far as the "thinskin" aspect went, he didn't know the model intimately, but was aware of them. He did say though that usually the regular USA ri's have pretty much of a "mirror" finish, i.e reflections are only very slightly distorted, (as is the case with my AV62ri) whereas on this one the reflections were much more distorted as the grain was much more in evidence in the reflection. He also looked at the screwholes under the pickguard, (firstly to check there were only five of them!!) but also to look for the lacquer buildup, which he said was often very much in evidence, as it was also around the edges of the neck pocket. At both points, there appeared to be almost no visible layer of finish above the bare wood, just a faintly perceptible yellowy line, no thicker than a high E string.

10) Pickups were definitely Fender OV's as far as could be determined by visual inspection without removing the bridge. This was based mainly on what he could see of the neck pickup exposed in its rout and the lead wires and colours.

11) He admitted that he had not come across any of the very high end Japanese market only models, (Extrads?) or had any explanation for the odd dot spacing. But those matters apart, he said that he would be willing to swear in a court of law that this was in his opinion some variant or other on a USA52ri!

We ran the serial number past Fender UK, and they confirmed that it was a valid possible serial number but was not an official UK import, which is a sort of negative confirmation, but if this is what its supposed to be, then it wouldn't be a UK import - Thinskins have only been retailed in the USA. All I can do now is run the serial number past Fender USA and see what they have to say!

His final word was that used RI's sell quickly out of the shop he manages on the rare occasions he gets them, at an average of about £150 ($300) more than I have paid for this, so whatever it is he didn't think I'd been seriously ripped off, and if it is a genuine Thinskin, then I'm probably about £250 (£500) up on the deal.

Thanks for your thoughts and info everyone so far, - did I say this wasn't going to be a long post? Any further insights would be very welcome!

Thanks
Rick J

January 16th, 2008, 03:41 PM	#62 (permalink)
Rick J Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North London, UK Posts: 651	Yes I've measure mine! Hi Telemarkman - I've measured mine! I've also had a very experienced local tech look over the whole thing earlier today, - someone who has sold and worked on literally hundreds of RI's both USA and MIJ, and has also re-wired many of them to modern wiring so knows the guitar inside and out including the electronics. Firstly, the measurement between the dots is a hair over 1 3/4", - which is definitely wider than most USA Ri's. This aspect might indeed suggest a MIJ. However, in every other aspect possible to examine, he was convinced that this was a USA 52ri. I don't have time to write a long post now, (I'm an accountant in the thick of tax season in th UK!!) but the principal points of his diagnosis were: 1) Date stamping "NOV 05 2006" on the butt of the neck is USA style. 2) No "Crafted in Japan" on back of neck. He said he had seen several guitars over the years where this had been sanded off or somehow removed, and in every single case there was some "ghost" image left or evidence of removal, or the neck had very obviously been stripped and refinished. NO evidence here of any refinish or any sort of disturbance or ghosting in the relevant area of the neck. 3) Electronics under the control plate: Soldering is clearly factory quality and unchanged, "old wiring" circuit still in place, with correct factory components, not just in values, but in terms of actual brands. CTS pots with correct markings. Switch is open type, - every MIJ he had seen came with a closed in type switch. He couldn't guarantee they had never been made, (maybe somebody else can certify this point) but in twenty years he had never seen a MIJ (or CIJ) re-issue with old style wiring, or ever been asked to rewire one from old to new. 4) Frets on the neck were clearly not standard, and looked a lot like the Dunlops they are supposed to be, not just because of measurement but because of the brighter silver colour and lack of any noticeable wear on a used guitar, (apparently they have a lower nickel content and wear better than standard frets). 5) Neck is (medium) chunky U shape, not as big as a Nocaster, but in his opinion bigger than any MIJ he had ever seen other than that on a MIJ Donahue. - But that neck has a noticeable "v" in the first five or six inches, and there was no sign of that on this neck. 6) Colour - Yellow golden colour very typical of USA production, particularly recent, - he couldn't recall seeing a MIJ of this colour, - all the 52 RIs of Japaneses origin he had seen are "browner" (clearer lacquer) or "whiter" (more blonde). This, incidentally, accords with my own experience. 7) Bridge plate, saddles, stampings are correct for recent 52RI. We didn't remove the bridge, but he had a good look and thought that it looked very much like it had never been removed, not conclusive by any means, but he reckoned its quite difficult to remove a bridge and replace it with another without any leaving any kind of evidence at all, - - but yes, it could just have been replaced. 8) Little peek of the bridge pick up rout visible to the right of the bridge, - he said almost unversal on USA models, - never seen it on an a MIJ or CIJ, - the Japanese would have likely "corrected" such an error. 9) As far as the "thinskin" aspect went, he didn't know the model intimately, but was aware of them. He did say though that usually the regular USA ri's have pretty much of a "mirror" finish, i.e reflections are only very slightly distorted, (as is the case with my AV62ri) whereas on this one the reflections were much more distorted as the grain was much more in evidence in the reflection. He also looked at the screwholes under the pickguard, (firstly to check there were only five of them!!) but also to look for the lacquer buildup, which he said was often very much in evidence, as it was also around the edges of the neck pocket. At both points, there appeared to be almost no visible layer of finish above the bare wood, just a faintly perceptible yellowy line, no thicker than a high E string. 10) Pickups were definitely Fender OV's as far as could be determined by visual inspection without removing the bridge. This was based mainly on what he could see of the neck pickup exposed in its rout and the lead wires and colours. 11) He admitted that he had not come across any of the very high end Japanese market only models, (Extrads?) or had any explanation for the odd dot spacing. But those matters apart, he said that he would be willing to swear in a court of law that this was in his opinion some variant or other on a USA52ri! We ran the serial number past Fender UK, and they confirmed that it was a valid possible serial number but was not an official UK import, which is a sort of negative confirmation, but if this is what its supposed to be, then it wouldn't be a UK import - Thinskins have only been retailed in the USA. All I can do now is run the serial number past Fender USA and see what they have to say! His final word was that used RI's sell quickly out of the shop he manages on the rare occasions he gets them, at an average of about £150 ($300) more than I have paid for this, so whatever it is he didn't think I'd been seriously ripped off, and if it is a genuine Thinskin, then I'm probably about £250 (£500) up on the deal. Thanks for your thoughts and info everyone so far, - did I say this wasn't going to be a long post? Any further insights would be very welcome! Thanks Rick J __________________ "If you want to know what an electric guitar is supposed to sound like, just listen to this." - British DJ John Peel introducing a Roy Buchanan track on BBC radio in the late 60's.